AoS LVO 2018

[Tizianolol]

i don't know if you already did that but I wanna talk about seraphon list that got 8th place this year

Kroak
Balewind
Astrolith
Skink priest
Eternity warden
2x10 skinks
4 razodont
Basti
3x5 saurus guards
Eternity starhost

I was sure after playing more and more seraphon that eternal starhost was bad in this beta cause tz lists.(There are still 4 list above this seraphon list in ladder )
Anyway this list worked this tournament for sure. 8 th place is not bad.
The question is what do you think about the list?what do you think about 3x5 guards only?
I wanna ask expecially to @darren watson brcause he knows kroaknado very well, what do you think about this idea?

 

[Aginor]

I think the Eternal Starhost is actually underrated because its huge weakness (mortal wounds) is viewed as a huge killer argument, which it isn't whem playing against many armies.
We must not forget that it is still almost unkillable for everything that doesn't have reliable mortal wounds (or if you can debuff the unit to cause them less reliably, like Starlight against Bloodletters). And that's a lot of units.

So if Kroak can bomb the mortal wound dealers there's no easy objective grabbing for the enemy since you can just teleport the Eternity Warden and 5 Guard there.

So...I guess the answer is still Kroak. In a Kroaknado list and with a bit of luck you could just as well not have anything else on the table. Kroak wins or loses the battle.

 

[Tizianolol]

I agree about kroak. But if eternal battalion is good, why no1 build a list around it! For exemple 2x5 guards and like 15 guards. Put a slann razo and basti and you got a list. I don't know if 3x5 guards with battalion is the best option. I think the list can t win agains tzeentch for exemple!

 

[Killer Angel]

I think the Eternal Starhost is actually underrated because its huge weakness (mortal wounds) is viewed as a huge killer argument, which it isn't whem playing against many armies.

MW are not so common but neither rare and eternal starhost requires some points ' investment.
The thing is that you still rely on Kroak to eliminate the threats to guards.
It's certainly a valid variant of kroaknado

 

[PJetski]

I would honestly always rather have Saurus Knights over Saurus Guard. Mortal Wounds aside, a 5+ save with 2 wounds is equivalent to a 3+ save, and a 4+ save with 2 wounds is strictly better than a 2+ save with 1 wound.

 

[Tizianolol]

With battalion you can have 2+ rerollable, and u ignore -1 rend! They hit harder too and during your turn u got d3 dmg!! That's better!

 

[dinoSTARZ]

It seems to me like (4+) with 2 wounds (3/6 * 3/6 = 1/4) is a 1/4 chance of dying, and a 2+ with one wound is a 1/6 chance. I can't stand models that have 2+ saves (especially if they reroll 1's). It's BULLSHIZZLE...mostly because I can't stop it

 

[Hu3pfka3s3]

you forget that you cant move the temple guard, you cant even pile in in combat. Thats my problem wit them actually.

 

[Killer Angel]

you forget that you cant move the temple guard, you cant even pile in in combat. Thats my problem wit them actually.

To get the bonuses you don't have to move them in the move phase. Pile in happens in the combat phase so it works

 

[Hu3pfka3s3]

Well i thought i read it on an official Website from GW, but maybe it was just a random guy who said this and I believed him^^

 

[Tizianolol]

Thats interesting. It says they can t move in mov phase and pile in heppens in combat phase. In pretty sure you can pile in

 

[Aginor]

Agree. Not being able to pile in would be against the wording of the rules.

 

[Canas]

I think the Eternal Starhost is actually underrated because its huge weakness (mortal wounds) is viewed as a huge killer argument, which it isn't whem playing against many armies.
We must not forget that it is still almost unkillable for everything that doesn't have reliable mortal wounds (or if you can debuff the unit to cause them less reliably, like Starlight against Bloodletters). And that's a lot of units.

So if Kroak can bomb the mortal wound dealers there's no easy objective grabbing for the enemy since you can just teleport the Eternity Warden and 5 Guard there.

So...I guess the answer is still Kroak. In a Kroaknado list and with a bit of luck you could just as well not have anything else on the table. Kroak wins or loses the battle.

I think that this is probably te best result you can get with an eternal starhost (and the best approach). You take the starhost alongside something particularly scary like a kroaknado. The starhost claims objectives while the scary unit starts murdering stuff. Your opponent can now only really choose between two evils. Either the scary unit will annihilate his army, or the starhost will stand around capturing objectives and scoring points.

However, the moment you get unlucky for whatever reason the enire thing falls apart. And since a tournament consists of several matches you're fairly likely to just get unlucky at some point and be dropped out. At some point kroak will get sniped turn 1, or his casts will fail to do significant damage, or your opponent gets Lucky and blasts your starhost apart, you make a mistake etc.

All in all, this makes it a decent, but not a tournament winning list. It's too dependent on everything going right and just falls apart too quickly to win multiple times in a row. Maybe if you swap out the Kroaknado for a different "scary" option it might solve this issue, especially if you can take 2 "scary" units instead of 1 to spread the risk. But as long as its just an eternal starhost + 1 scary unit I'd expect it to never start crushing tournaments left and right.

 

[Tizianolol]

Im thinking about play guards without battalion:
Like 15 guards with warden near and a priest.
Its 2+ save rerollable ( priest) ignoring -1 rend. The unit seems scary without battalion, cheaper and guards Are battleline with seraphon alliance. You cap battleline units with 2x10 skinks more I wanna test it!!

 

[Canas]

Im thinking about play guards without battalion:
Like 15 guards with warden near and a priest.
Its 2+ save rerollable ( priest) ignoring -1 rend. The unit seems scary without battalion, cheaper and guards Are battleline with seraphon alliance. You cap battleline units with 2x10 skinks more I wanna test it!!

It's only a 3+ save, why do you think you get to 2+?

Admittadly a re-rollable 3+ save ignoring -1 rend is still good, and their damage is still good. But I think you'l still find the lack of wounds to be kind of a let-down. If they had 2 wounds I'd say it'd be briljant. But with 1 wound they're still depressingly easy to take out, and more importantly, since it's a unit of infantry they lose power very quickly. Had it been a behemoth with the same stats it'd probaly been acceptable, but now they feel too easy to hamstring... It'l not be outright terrible.. but it probably won't get you far either..

 

[Tizianolol]

ye sorry is 3+ .. This unit give +1 to your seraphon hero!! Anyway it's still good save !!