AoS Thunderquake Starhost

[Patbuz]

Hi i have just started collecting my seraphon army and was looking in to Thunderquake Starthost.

I have some problem understanding the warscroll.

“The Creator’s Will: The Engine of the Gods or Troglodon, and any units from the

Thunderquake Starhost within 8", are guided by the will of their creator. At the start

of each combat phase you can declare that all of those units will either be swift, in

which case you can re-roll charge rolls and failed hit rolls for them, or savage, in

which case you can re-roll failed wound rolls and save rolls for them.”

A: For the first does it mean that all units need to be within 8” of Troglodon of Engine to get the buff?

B: it says you choose at the start of EACH combat phase. So twice a round, in your turn and your opponent's turn. Otherwise it would say "in each of your combat phases" like other warscrolls do.

C: it does NOT say something like "until your next hero phase" or "in the following combat phase" which would indicate when the buffs end. So it is either

C1: the buffs apply only in the combat phase

or

C2: the buffs apply until the next combat phase

or

C3: they end at some other, arbitrary point? I'll ignore that one for now.

D: it DOES mention a CHARGE roll, which can never occur inside a combat phase.


--> So if C1 is true the charge buff NEVER works.

--> If C2 is true the charge buff works, but never in the first round (you choose it after the charge phase), it applies in your NEXT turn, which is weird.

--> If C2 is true it even means that I can use three of the four buffs in one turn (I choose swift the turn before so it applies in my next charge phase, then in the combat phase I choose savage and get the other two). That sounds needlessly complex to me so I assume it could be an error.

--> C2 also automatically would mean that all the buffs on saves, wounds, and hits apply all the time, also in the shooting phase or when a special ability allows them to attack or be attacked in some other phase

 

[Arawn]

I play B version.
At the start of each combat phase (yours and the oponent) you can choose between swift and savage. And the bonuses apply until the start of the next combat phase, when you chose again.

 

[Aginor]

Yeah. It doesn't work before the combat phase of turn one and afterwards you can change it each turn and it works all the time.

And yes that means if you chose swift in round one then you can use it to charge in turn two and then change it to savage so you benefit from both in that round.

 

[Killer Angel]

As correctly said, B is the way to go and the bonuses remain up to the start of the next combat phase.

I would add a precisation about A.
it's debatable if
A1: the units must be within 8" when you declare the buff, and they keep the bonus even if they go at a greater distance (PROBABLY THE CORRECT WAY TO DO IT)
or
A2: the units must stay within 8" to use the bonus

 

[Stevie754]

A1: the units must be within 8" when you declare the buff, and they keep the bonus even if they go at a greater distance (PROBABLY THE CORRECT WAY TO DO IT)

I think this is the way it makes most sense, otherwise buffing charge and hit rolls and then charging outside of the 8" bubble would make the rerolls to hit it comes with wasted.

Also the "Creators Will" ability says EOTG or Troglodon AND any units within 8". At the start of each combat declare that ALL those units will be swift or savage.
It doesn't mention while within the range of the buffing bubble.

 

[LordRibbit]

So if I'm reading this right for example in your first combat phase you can declare swift or savage on all models within 8 inches. Then as long as you don't change it again through the game and the engine doesn't die you can move the other models in the formation as far and wide as you want and not lose the buff?

 

[Aginor]

That is... complicated.
We have discussed it a while ago and indeed the rules as written are a bit unclear.
I think it is intended that you re-trigger it every round and if a unit is outside of 8" it doesn't work on that unit so you have to stay together.

 

[LordRibbit]

That is... complicated.
We have discussed it a while ago and indeed the rules as written are a bit unclear.
I think it is intended that you re-trigger it every round and if a unit is outside of 8" it doesn't work on that unit so you have to stay together.

That's how it's intended at least from how I understand it

 

[Canas]

That is... complicated.
We have discussed it a while ago and indeed the rules as written are a bit unclear.
I think it is intended that you re-trigger it every round and if a unit is outside of 8" it doesn't work on that unit so you have to stay together.

What if you somehow manage to move someone out of that 8" bubble during the current combat phase it was declared in? Does he retain the buf or does he lose it?

 

[Aginor]

I would say the unit retains the buff.
The check happens at one point.

The same thing goes for other abilities that are activated in the hero move or combat phases (Orruks have some like that IIRC)

 

[Canas]

I would say the unit retains the buff.
The check happens at one point.

The same thing goes for other abilities that are activated in the hero move or combat phases (Orruks have some like that IIRC)

mm, i've never been entirely clear on a lot of abilities like this, stuff that's a bubble around a given character. It never states if to benefit from it you need to be in it on cast or whenever you'd actually want to use the bonus. And there's quite a lot where being in it when you want to use the bonus makes sense. Obviously, an orruk warboss shouting at his underlings the check is when he casts, but stuff like the thunderquake host or a priest with priestly trappings are a lot less clear.

 

[Aginor]

The important part is a small part of the wording. I'll post some better examples later But I think based on some examples we can deduct a clear rule.