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AoS Can you help me?..feeling lost

Kimbo
Saurus

Kimbo

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Hi all!

As ive given AoS another chance and picked to play the Lizards again ive come to the conclusion that im...lost..I would love for you to help me!

- What formations have you found successful? Or should you play without?

-What is your take on summoning and its effectiness in the game? Ive heard both good and bad things and I feel confused

- can warrior spam be as effective as skink spam? (I like the models better) if so..how do you play it?

- i play both casual and competitive play. Should i leave the lizards att home for tournaments? Or do they hold Thier ground?

- If you were to grade Seraphon from 1-10 power wise now with the new GH17. What number would you pick?


That was alot of stuff...but these are the things im curious about! You do not have to answer all the questions if you dont like...all the help i can get to get started is greatly appriciated!
 
Some short thoughts for now:

Shadowstrike, Thunderquake, Bloodclaw are strong

Summoning is good for getting special stuff on the field and/or to keep drops lower. Not useless at all.

Warriors can be strong but they are harder to play than Skinks because of mobility.
I play Skinks. But mainly because of style reasons.

We can reach the top tables of tournaments and I honestly think we have everything we need to even win against top tier armies.
Play Seraphon in tournaments!

I would say we are a 7 or 8 (10 being strongest).
I'd say above us are Fyreslayers, Tzeentch, SCE and Khorne at least, but we can beat those ones as well. There is no list we cannot beat, but there are some that are tough. But there are also lists - even of top tier armies - that we can outright destroy in turn one with some of our lists.

Kharadron and Sylvaneth are approximately our level I guess.
 
Aginor said:
Some short thoughts for now:

Shadowstrike, Thunderquake, Bloodclaw are strong

Summoning is good for getting special stuff on the field and/or to keep drops lower. Not useless at all.

Warriors can be strong but they are harder to play than Skinks because of mobility.
I play Skinks. But mainly because of style reasons.

We can reach the top tables of tournaments and I honestly think we have everything we need to even win against top tier armies.
Play Seraphon in tournaments!

I would say we are a 7 or 8 (10 being strongest).
I'd say above us are Fyreslayers, Tzeentch, SCE and Khorne at least, but we can beat those ones as well. There is no list we cannot beat, but there are some that are tough. But there are also lists - even of top tier armies - that we can outright destroy in turn one with some of our lists.

Kharadron and Sylvaneth are approximately our level I guess.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much!

now i just need to decide if i want to go the Bloodclaw path (start collecting value of the warriors) or go the other routes.


When you say that you play skinks because of styles...what do you mean, how do you play skinks effectivly?
 
@darren watson placed well this year using a Kroak list so we may not be the strongest but played right we can beat almost any other army.
 
Kimbo said:
Thank you so much!

now i just need to decide if i want to go the Bloodclaw path (start collecting value of the warriors) or go the other routes.


When you say that you play skinks because of styles...what do you mean, how do you play skinks effectivly?
Click to expand...

Skinks can be used to block, pepper units with shots and get your opponent to waste charges (wary fighter) they are extremely fast for a infantry unit so they are great at grabbing objectives or drawing the enemy out of position.
 
With style I meant both visual and play style:

- They look cooler IMO.
- I like armies that look kinda uniform. Since many other units are Skinks (our flyers, the Bastiladon, Troglodon and Stegadon) they fit together more nicely.

- I like mobile armies and synergies.
- Skinks move faster than our cavalry and almost as fast as most cavalry in the game (they have 8" move, most cavalry has 9" or so it seems).
- Their wary fighters ability allows them to not be in melee most of the time.
- They can shoot so you don't have the same problems with piling in to get damage onto a unit, like with Saurus for example where you waste half of your attacks if terrain prevents you from piling in properly.
- They have great synergies IMO. I especially like their synergies with the Stegadon.
- Shadowstrike. My favourite bataillon (I even wrote a song about it, no joke!)
 
To add:


  • An eternal starhost can be amazing when used right (but absolutly abysmall when facing its hard counters).
  • Summoning can be extremely usefull, but the way it is implemented it is a long shot from what it could be. Magic in general is kind of "meh" compared to what it could be. The seraphon were one of the first battletomes, and thus got screwed over the most with the release of the first GHB. The limit on behemoths, rule of one for magic, the limits on summoning. All rather core-mechanics. I do hope they'l eventually revise this.
  • As an army, we're extremely versatile and have very powerfull synergies. This allows us to compete against the top armies, especially if we can prepare properly. However, this has a couple of disadvantages:
    • Since we rely on synergies our armies are relativly easy to break. Kill the key-unit and our army falls apart. In contrast, an SCE basicly needs to be routed before it starts falling apart.
    • Unless we're playing with very large amounts of points our armies are either heavily specialised, which means they'l either perform amazingly, or get crushed.
    • This degree of specialisation does mean we're probably never going to be top-dog in tournaments. We're too liable to run into a list that happens to counter whatever it is you're fielding. Even if we might be able to make a list that can beat 90% of the lists in the tournament.
    • We severly lack 1-man powerhouses. The only ones that can manage well on their own are behemoths, and those are limited. Everything else requires support, be it from a starhost or another unit buffing them, to actually amount to much. In contrast a block of say 20 liberators is going to be a pain to move, regardless of being backed up by anything or not.
  • In terms of 1-10 powerlevels, I'd say we're a 7. With the footnote that a good player that uses our synergies well can make it an 8-9 possibly even a 10 if he's allowed to tailor his list. However, a bad player will probably not get much more than a 4-5. And if you're unlucky and end up facing the wrong kind of army for your list you might as well give up immeadiatly whereas other armies would at least be able to put up a significant fight.
 
I can’t answer everything, but...

Most of the Starhosts are good at something in particular, and useful in their own right. Bloodclaw is the best all-comers Starhost for anyone who likes Saurus infantry, and Shadowstrike(?) Starhost is very useful for its movement and deployment shenanigans, and all of the units contained are very useful. The Eternal Starhost is a bit of an odd duck, because it is the best way to run Saurus Guard, but also the only way lots of players run them. Saurus Guard are very fragile (they die a bit too easily for a model that costs 40 points, especially compared to Stormcast Paladins) without the effective 2+ Save granted by the formation.

Summoning is important, but not everything is worth summoning. The Astrolith Bearer is an important summon, as are Skink Starpriests (for Surprise Arcane Bolts). They’re both easy to summon, and can have an immediate impact.

Warriors are a fantastic unit that requires very little in the way of external buffs to be good, but they need some babying on the battlefield. They’re deceptively fragile, and they really need to strike first before they lose too many models. On top of that, they MUST be run in a 40-model unit in order to get the most out of them, which means they’re ALSO a bit ungainly. Most importantly, you want ALL of them to get ALL of their attacks (specifically, their Jaws), which means every model is within 1” of an enemy. And then you remember they have average movement. It’s a tall task to bury your opponent’s models in 120-160 dice (depending on whether you run them in a formation for the extra Jaws attack). But you can do it! To help you out, the Wardrummer gives you a very reliable “run”. In a generic Order list, your best bet is to send screening units forward (Skinks and Saurus Knights) to occupy your opponent and keep the pressure off the Warriors so they can charge intact. But there is a better way! Seraphon Allegiance gives exactly what you need: Lords of Time and Space! If you need it to be more reliable, throw Curse of Fates on the Warriors before you launch them across the battlefield. Line up the warriors such that they are two models deep on the 9” perimeter from whatever they are about to eat. Now, there are several ways to make that charge easier, but I think the most straight-forward way is to make sure they’re in range of a Saurus Oldblood sans Carnosaur (a.k.a. On Foot).
 
I use the eternal starhost myself.As mentioned its a very tricky batallion to use due to mortal wounds being everywhere.

The greatest counter to it is tzeentch and armies with powerful assassination. it relies heavily on my slann and eternity warden to be albe to buff the saurus guard. Together with them i use 40 and 10 skins, mostly to soak up charges that cause mortal wounds (khorne, beastclaw) and as a ranged support. Together with that runs a bastiladon and a skink starpriest. It isnt the most optimal right now as i am still tweaking every game, but i havent found a lot of direct counters yet and it feels amazing to be able to block off half an army without losing a single saurus guard.
 
Magnetude said:
I use the eternal starhost myself.As mentioned its a very tricky batallion to use due to mortal wounds being everywhere.

The greatest counter to it is tzeentch and armies with powerful assassination. it relies heavily on my slann and eternity warden to be albe to buff the saurus guard. Together with them i use 40 and 10 skins, mostly to soak up charges that cause mortal wounds (khorne, beastclaw) and as a ranged support. Together with that runs a bastiladon and a skink starpriest. It isnt the most optimal right now as i am still tweaking every game, but i havent found a lot of direct counters yet and it feels amazing to be able to block off half an army without losing a single saurus guard.
Click to expand...

Sounds cool. How many guard do you use in each gruop?
 
Kimbo said:
Sounds cool. How many guard do you use in each gruop?
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minimal of 5x5x5. theyre mostly positioned like 1 big unit anyways. ive heard people say that 10x5x5 works better but it seems kind of overkill. i rather spend it on skinks
 
Magnetude said:
minimal of 5x5x5. theyre mostly positioned like 1 big unit anyways. ive heard people say that 10x5x5 works better but it seems kind of overkill. i rather spend it on skinks
Click to expand...

What you guys think of this?

Allegiance: Order
Saurus Eternity Warden (140)
Slann Starmaster (260)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
10 x Saurus Guard (200)
10 x Saurus Guard (200)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
40 x Skinks (200)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
Bastiladon (280)
Stegadon (240)
Eternal Starhost (130)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 113
 
Kimbo said:
What you guys think of this?

Allegiance: Order
Saurus Eternity Warden (140)
Slann Starmaster (260)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
10 x Saurus Guard (200)
10 x Saurus Guard (200)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
40 x Skinks (200)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
Bastiladon (280)
Stegadon (240)
Eternal Starhost (130)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 113
Click to expand...

first off, i would use not the astrolith bearer in that setup. its 160 points for rerolls to hit which the slann can give with a constellation (rerolls of 1). secondly id give the skins boltspitters. they do less damage but it keeps them outside of charge range. thats 360 points that you could spent ona shadowtrike host. I use it to take out those pesky backline mages that cast mortal wounds and buffs. everything else looks nice
 
Kimbo said:
What you guys think of this?

Allegiance: Order
Saurus Eternity Warden (140)
Slann Starmaster (260)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
10 x Saurus Guard (200)
10 x Saurus Guard (200)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
40 x Skinks (200)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
Bastiladon (280)
Stegadon (240)
Eternal Starhost (130)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 113
Click to expand...

Also, if you want a real nasty trick: pick great rememberer for your slann and cast mystic shield on your bastiladon. Teleport both your stegadon and bastiladon 9" from the enemy lines. Use the stegadon ability to move the bastiladon D6. Charge and laugh with a 2+ rerollable bastiladon stomping through the enemy lines. After drinking the tears of the warmbloods Go to hell for your sins
 
Magnetude said:
Also, if you want a real nasty trick: pick great rememberer for your slann and cast mystic shield on your bastiladon. Teleport both your stegadon and bastiladon 9" from the enemy lines. Use the stegadon ability to move the bastiladon D6. Charge and laugh with a 2+ rerollable bastiladon stomping through the enemy lines. After drinking the tears of the warmbloods Go to hell for your sins
Click to expand...

Thats awesome...i'll glady to hell for that. Salty tears everywhere!
 
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