AoS Vs Vanguard Raptors

[Paul Beenis]

My friend has recently finished building his SCE army and it includes 9 Vanguard Raptors
He sets them up in a line pretty close to his board edge preventing any tp behind them. In front of them he has one or two big long lines of Liberators, Paladins and Retributors. One of the debuffs he was telling me about was a -1 to hit shooting through a unit in front of his Raptors. These Raptors have buffed saves from hero etc I think almost a 3+ Or even 2+ now and they are doing mortal wound spam on 5+6's with another buff.

How would you guys suggest countering this?

 

[Joshmunga]

I would definitely use the summon starlight spell to help decrease the likely hood of getting hit with those mortal wounds. Then just try to lure some of their protective units out and tp something huge in there like Stegadon or Carnosaur. I've never fought against the raptors so I can't speak from experience. I hope this helps though!

 

[Seraphage]

Ignore them as much as you can, flank him the other way and when they get close enough, go for it

 

[Aginor]

Longstrike or Hurricane Crossbows?
If it is the latter: Pretty short ranged, you can probably ignore them for quite some time.
If it is the first: Bigger problem, but at least those don't have that many attacks. Buff yourself with mystic shield and debuff them with Starlight to prevent mortal wounds.

Playing the objectives might be key. If he doesn't move his guys he won't claim objectives with them. If he does you can attack them.

Alternatively: Stay out of their range and shoot the hell out of them using Kroak spells or so. Or at least shoot the line before them until those are dead and then strike them.


That being said: Those guys are super strong. Depending on what you bring and how clever your opponent plays you just might not be able to beat them unless you design your list specifically against them. That's just SCE.

 

[Seraphage]

Longstrike or Hurricane Crossbows?
If it is the latter: Pretty short ranged, you can probably ignore them for quite some time.
If it is the first: Bigger problem, but at least those don't have that many attacks. Buff yourself with mystic shield and debuff them with Starlight to prevent mortal wounds.

Playing the objectives might be key. If he doesn't move his guys he won't claim objectives with them. If he does you can attack them.

Alternatively: Stay out of their range and shoot the hell out of them using Kroak spells or so. Or at least shoot the line before them until those are dead and then strike them.


That being said: Those guys are super strong. Depending on what you bring and how clever your opponent plays you just might not be able to beat them unless you design your list specifically against them. That's just SCE.

You both suggested to use starlight on them. I still don't realise how they are gonna be in range of starlight with their range ?

 

[Aginor]

Slann on Vortex or Kroak on Vortex, or Slann + Astrolith Bearer although that's more risky.

Alternatively: Don't debuff them but buff the unit you are moving towards them. Same bonus.

 

[Seraphage]

Slann on Vortex or Kroak on Vortex, or Slann + Astrolith Bearer although that's more risky.

Alternatively: Don't debuff them but buff the unit you are moving towards them. Same bonus.

Well, I 'd say more like "buff the unit that you need it to survive no matter what and thus, they are after "

 

[Aginor]

Oh and maybe something to think about if it is the Longstrike dudes: Compared to the Hurricane dudes they are not that great against hordes. You can hardly prevent them doing damage but you can have many wounds on the table. Play 160 Skinks or so. Killing those will take a while.

 

[Paul Beenis]

@Aginor he is playing the long strike versions. Also he's considering bringing the aether wings? I think that's what they are called in case I charge them. I think hoard and maybe kroaknado? Hoard skinks would be most effective but it only have around 50 so far to play with

 

[Jbird460]

Ripperdactyl can drop 3 away and can fly over the screening unit if they get a good charge. And same with Chameleons but you would need to set them up so the arent shooting over the protectors (the sperman with the shooting debuff)

 

[Paul Beenis]

Ripperdactyl can drop 3 away and can fly over the screening unit if they get a good charge. And same with Chameleons but you would need to set them up so the arent shooting over the protectors (the sperman with the shooting debuff)

But against a ridiculous save rippers or chameleons wouldn't do much

 

[Seraphage]

But against a ridiculous save rippers or chameleons wouldn't do much

Chameleons wouldn't. Rippers in a shadowstrike though ? Even if it is 2+, with 45 wounds going on, chances are they 'll still get to feel the damage

 

[Aginor]

If you can get your Rippers in to attack position (not that easy if he hugs the table border) they should do some damage unless you are really unlucky.

 

[Paul Beenis]

Alright I shall try it and let you guys know got 6 Rippers now for Shadowstrike

 

[Alaund]

Pretty late to the party but maybe you'll find it useful.
I don't really think the Rippers are the definite answer here - once your opponent finds out what's going on (and he will, eventually) he'll just protect them from the sides and packs the units closer so you cannot charge over with the birds - you'd have to bank on the double turn to pull it off.

I do like some of the tips already given by @Aginor, namely:
- playing objectives, ideally with cheap hordes, where mortal wounds would have little meaning
- Kroaknado might do the trick - you should be able to out-range them most cases and additionally buff him with mystic shield and -1 to hit from Starpriest; haven't faced raptors myself but I'd assume he'll dish out more damage than they can

Anyways, good luck with your battle and let us know how it went!

 

[Paul Beenis]

Will do! We just had a small 1K battle yesterday and he didn't bring them, I was able to win though. But I think I'll try hoard and Kroaknado against his list including Raptors

 

[Aginor]

Good. I am curious if it will work.

 

[Killer Angel]

My friend has recently finished building his SCE army and it includes 9 Vanguard Raptors
He sets them up in a line pretty close to his board edge preventing any tp behind them. In front of them he has one or two big long lines of Liberators, Paladins and Retributors.

With also a hero, we are talking about at least 5-6 nearby units.
Buff (starlight + mystic shield) a Bastiladon with ark, and send it into the fray.

 

[Paul Beenis]

With also a hero, we are talking about at least 5-6 nearby units.
Buff (starlight + mystic shield) a Bastiladon with ark, and send it into the fray.

Very good suggestion! I'll just get the hunters steed constellation, or also move in a steg to give it D6 Movement! This makes me feel less stressed haha