Do Superheroes have to be miserable orphans?

[Scalenex]

Just saw Wonder Woman. I liked it. It was the first good movie I saw with Snyder's name attached to it. It's not a cinematic masterpiece worth watching a dozen times like The Dark Knight but I thought it was worth the price of my movie ticket.

If you are very sensitive to spoilers, stop reading now. Here's a mild one.

Diana's mother did not die. She could have. She was in a battle where other Amazons died, but she made it through. That surprised me. Probably good that she didn't. It would not have moved me even a little. I can't remember the last non-Deadpool superhero movie or show I saw where the protagonist didn't lose a parent or surrogate parent to violence.

Batman is defined by his parent's death. I'm not going to change it, but we don't have to flash back to it every movie.

Snyder's Superman really stretched out the death of Krypton. Then the movie killed Jonathan Kent for no real literary reason.

the Horrible Green Lantern movie. It wasn't the only problem but they wrote in a scene where young Hal Jordan lost his dad to an explosive accident before his eyes and this had no bearing on the movie.

I'm not a Green Arrow buff. I don't know if his parents were alive or dead. It never seemed to be a driver for him until the Arrow series. Again, Flash seemed to play up the dead parents more than usually see. I understand Barry Allen is an orphan whereas Wally West Flash is not an orphan, though in Flash the current series they killed Wally's mom.

I realize not every superhero is an orphan but I fear too many are. The DC universe is a bit too dark and brooding for my tastes. Wonder Woman is not lighthearted but it's more hopeful and less brooding than Synder's other DC movies. Which is an accomplishment since it involves trench warfare and chemical warfare.

Anyway, if I were a superhero I'd want to be Well-Adjusted Man. Who grew up with two loving non-abusive parents who survived well into my adulthood. I don't know if anyone has heard of the card game Sentinels of the Multiverse. It's a card game based on a fictional comic book series that was never created but they pretend like it existed for decades, though they are building up an extended lore. One interesting thing about it, at most half the heroes had tragic backstories. Most have family's who love them. Well Expatriatte has a really awful tragic backstory but a lot of them didn't. Even those without tragic backstories, it's not ALWAYS dead parents every time.

 

[Ritual]

Yes they do.

 

[Otzi'mandias]

The problem with the DC universe (and to an extent Marvel too) is that they refuse to let a good idea go. Batman lost his parents and is dark - let's do that for everyone! is the literal mentality of them. They create a great film (Dark knight) or comic ( watchmen) and when they become popular, they duplicate the intriguing and interesting bits in them until noone cares anymore. It's been a running problem in the comics industry for a long time.
I found a video that explains a load of it, but it's mostly about the killing joke movie not wonder woman. Sorry!

 

[pendrake]

Yes they do.

Indeed. This. ^ Exactly.

 

[Scalenex]

I really like Flash and Arrow. I sort of like Legends of Tomorrow. I just binge watched the latest season of Flash to hit Netflix and have been going through Arrow slower. I'm getting a little tired of the protagonists chewing on angst burgers and I'm getting a little tired of the will/they won't they romantic arcs stretching on and on.

But one thing bugs me. Every season has subplots based on the main characters and their allies choosing to keep major secrets from their friends, loved ones and teammates and this always backfires. Now season 3 of Flash and season 5 of Arrow, the characters themselves are variations of "Why are we still keeping secrets from our friends, when has this ever helped us?" Yet they still do it! It's not a crime to have the characters, heroes and villains alike learn from their past efforts.

I have to resist the effort to build a shrine in worship of Greg Weisman. He did Gargoyles (but not season 3 the one that sucked) and Young Justice. Both had villains who loved layered plans. The bad guys usually had one obvious blatant plan of villainy and a secret plan of villainy. The heroes foil the public plan but the private villain plan succeeds. This happens a lot. But here's the fun fact. Before the midpoint of season 2 of both shows, the heroes manage to start anticipating these plans and begin acting accordingly, even tricking the bad guys with their own complex plans. Say what!

The only tricky move Arrow and the Flash seem to have is to call in reinforcements, either with a crossover show or you know that character who said he or she was leaving and never came back, that character came back...but only this once.

grumble grumble grumble

First World Problems.

 

[Warden]

I have to resist the effort to build a shrine in worship of Greg Weisman. He did Gargoyles (but not season 3 the one that sucked) and Young Justice. Both had villains who loved layered plans. The bad guys usually had one obvious blatant plan of villainy and a secret plan of villainy. The heroes foil the public plan but the private villain plan succeeds. This happens a lot. But here's the fun fact. Before the midpoint of season 2 of both shows, the heroes manage to start anticipating these plans and begin acting accordingly, even tricking the bad guys with their own complex plans. Say what!

Haven't seen either of shows, but that sounds really interesting; no one in the public would realize how much danger they are really in after all...

grumble grumble grumble

Agreed.

 

[Workschmock]

Yuppers. As always financial interest may collide with good storytellling. You can build up a good storyline and surprise your audiance by killing your loved protagonist and finish after eg. 10 episodes. Dont ressurect 'em and bury any future chance to produce more paying episodes or spinoffs.
Yeah well, real life strikes again.
For example the lazarus pit in arrow:
Oh no sonebody died! That is horrible *moping around for one season*...
Hey wow deus ex lazarus pit.
Tragic death reversed. Let's not use that thing again for future problem solving. Err maybe once more.. Err lets destroy it with poisoning or backdrafts on the effect. And so on. Or season finalies with boss fights.
Hm, the end of the world is nigh.. Let's not call all (or even one) super hero friends because we can't pay them, oh no i meant: because they should not leave their city and rescue the whole goddamn world (obviously they do not care about millions or billions dieng if at least another city goes down before their own). Hooray for logic. Huge proplem is the sheer size of franchises and for example comic books. You have "only" 5 seasons of arrow with imo 75% mediocre plots and filler eps but compare that to the hundreds of issues of like avengers, batman, justice leage, thor, hulk, and so on and on and.. Someday all stories will be told or mankind annihilated. But if multiverses exist, it may already be the case

 

[Scalenex]

Haven't seen either of shows, but that sounds really interesting; no one in the public would realize how much danger they are really in after all...

Here's some free advertising. Young Justice is season 1 and 2 is running on Netflix. The series was cancelled but it got so many Netflix views that Netflix agreed to buy a season 3 which has no release date, but is currently recording the audio portion.

There is also a companion comic book series which costs an arm and a leg if you want a hard copy, a reasonable amount if you are okay with Kindle comics. Both season 1 and season 2 take place over a single and most of the episodes are weeks apart. There is a five year in-universe time skip between season 1 and 2 and the comic book fills in some of the blanks. They also allow minor stuff that couldn't be shown in the TV series for fear of offending delicate sensibilities. One of the characters has an out of wedlock child but it is never mentioned in the TV show but happens to be mentioned in the comic book.

Gargoyles is owned by Disney, and Disney has signed some sort of vague deal with Netflix but they seem to have no interest in releasing their golden age 90s shows to streaming without charging $1.99/episode so it's available on DVD (don't buy season 3). Season 2 is actually sold as Season 2 volume 1 and Season 2 volume 2 but that's not a scam. There 51 episodes in season 2.

Gargoyles was my all time favorite show as a teenager, maybe as a human. The fact that the heroes and villains learned from their mistakes and changed their strategies as the season progressed is but one aspect of the series' awesomeness.