AoS Dealing with Archaon w Tzeentch.

[Moc-Tzen]

There is a rampant power gamer that is playing Archaon(on horse) with the tzeentch battletome and thus spaming the siphon life drain in a super cheese way. Then you have two freaks on discs and a lord of change to deal with. Plus two units of barbarians.
1500's tourney that is but the format is getting popular.

I was thinking on using @Lachlin 's tactic of:

Eternal starhost & Shadowstrike Starhost combo.
Carno scar vet with quicksilver and super def.
Skink priest for re-rolls
Ripperdactils and all the chameleon skinks you can fit in there.

Basically killing archaon on turn 1 "even w chameleon shower if I am lucky! then going for the lord of change.
I dont trust the chameleon skinks that much tbh, They should have rend -1 at the very least.

However if I dont get first turn then things may go a bit nasty.

Quicksilver potion may help and his barbarians can be easely cut down by the templeguard or carno but my main concern is that they just keep vomiting their mortal wounds. So turn 1 it's the key that will decide most of things.


I was going to face this bastard on a tournament but due to a familiar compromise I was not able to attend, and he got 1st place due to his cheese list " still find that list a bit fishy" Still I am confident that I could had taken him out. What would you have done in this circumstance?

Specially you @Lachlin

 

[Bowser]

What points are you playing? Shadowstrike and Eternal woukd be a good call, but you need the shadowstrike if you're going to get archaon. I would say 6 rippers and two units of chameleons for sure, rippers and both units of chameleons focus on Archaon, you will need to do about 24-30 wounds to take him out in one shot. If you want to take a page from @darren watson book, put Kroak on a balewind Vortex and snipe archaon and the lord of change that way. Rippers in average will put out 16-18 wounds, 2 units of 5 chameleons should put out 6-8 wounds.
A bastiladon buffed by a skink starpriest will further the damage. And hopefully kill him first turn.
Something like this
Leaders
Saurus Eternity Warden (140)
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Skink Starpriest (100)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (260)
- General
- Warblade
- Trait: Master of Defense
- Artefact: Quicksilver Potion
Skink Starseer (160)
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
- Seraphon Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
- Seraphon Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
- Seraphon Battleline

Units
6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (120)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (120)

Behemoths
Bastiladon (300)

Battalions
Eternal Starhost (80)
Shadowstrike Starhost (120)
1980/2000

Alternatively if you don't have a starseer you could replace it with 3 kroxigor, or 3 razordons /salamanders, they're quite versatile and fit in with a defensive list quite well.

 

[Moc-Tzen]

What points are you playing?

My bad, 1500 pts

Shadowstrike and Eternal woukd be a good call, but you need the shadowstrike if you're going to get archaon. I would say 6 rippers and two units of chameleons for sure, rippers and both units of chameleons focus on Archaon, you will need to do about 24-30 wounds to take him out in one shot.

6 rippera would just be so good but I am exceeding for 20 pts if I exchange the 3rd chameleon skink unit for 3 additional ripperdactyls. I feel we have a lot of over costed units IMO.

If you want to take a page from @darren watson book, put Kroak on a balewind Vortex and snipe archaon and the lord of change that way. Rippers in average will put out 16-18 wounds, 2 units of 5 chameleons should put out 6-8 wounds.
A bastiladon buffed by a skink starpriest will further the damage. And hopefully kill him first turn.
Something like this
Leaders
Saurus Eternity Warden (140)
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Skink Starpriest (100)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (260)
- General
- Warblade
- Trait: Master of Defense
- Artefact: Quicksilver Potion
Skink Starseer (160)
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
- Seraphon Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
- Seraphon Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
- Seraphon Battleline

Units
6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (120)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (120)

Behemoths
Bastiladon (300)

Battalions
Eternal Starhost (80)
Shadowstrike Starhost (120)
1980/2000

Alternatively if you don't have a starseer you could replace it with 3 kroxigor, or 3 razordons /salamanders, they're quite versatile and fit in with a defensive list quite well.

This sounds crazy fun in a bigger game hehehe. And besides I love bastilladons.

Thanks for giving me your toughts

 

[Bowser]

Okay slightly less effective but maybe something like :
Leaders
Saurus Eternity Warden (140)
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Skink Starpriest (100)
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Saurus Sunblood (120)
- General
- Trait: Legendary Fighter
- Artefact: Quicksilver Potion

Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
- Seraphon Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
- Seraphon Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
- Seraphon Battleline
10 x Skinks (80)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers

Units
3 x Ripperdactyl Riders (140)
5 x Chameleon Skinks (120)

Behemoths
Bastiladon (300)

Battalions
Eternal Starhost (80)
Shadowstrike Starhost (120)

Total: 1500/1500

 

[Moc-Tzen]

This one has a very interesting approach I must say.
But I am not very confident on basti without the astrolith bearer.

In saw @darren watson 's list and I must say his Kroak build sounds incredibly trollish and fun! I want to try it in a 1500 battle!

 

[Bowser]

Let us know what you come up with.

 

[Tokek]

Archaon on a horse seems odd, presumably just taken because it is the cheapest way to troll that Slayer of Kings power with the Fate Dice?

I would definitely want to take a Starseer for this match-up, watch your opponents face when they smugly pull two 6's from their fate dice pool and then you calmly ask them to re-roll those two dice with re-rolls from your Cosmic Herald.

Other than that I think you are on the right lines with a big mass of Rippers in a Shadowstrike Starhost.

The Kroak bomb should wreck Archaon on a Horse while also pushing wounds on plenty of others, plus Kroak is pretty good at unbinding (duh!) and is generally boss when sitting on a Balewind Vortex. Its not exactly easy to fit into a 1500 list unfortunately.

 

[Moc-Tzen]

Archaon on a horse seems odd, presumably just taken because it is the cheapest way to troll that Slayer of Kings power with the Fate Dice?

I would definitely want to take a Starseer for this match-up, watch your opponents face when they smugly pull two 6's from their fate dice pool and then you calmly ask them to re-roll those two dice with re-rolls from your Cosmic Herald.

Other than that I think you are on the right lines with a big mass of Rippers in a Shadowstrike Starhost.

The Kroak bomb should wreck Archaon on a Horse while also pushing wounds on plenty of others, plus Kroak is pretty good at unbinding (duh!) and is generally boss when sitting on a Balewind Vortex. Its not exactly easy to fit into a 1500 list unfortunately.

He gives Archaos then arcanite lore to pass his suffered wounds to the barbarians. I havent had the chance to play him yet but when I do I plan on blasting it turn one and be on the Lord of change on the same turn.

Anyways So far I like the idea of spamming ripperdactyls but I am trying to squeeze 6 on that 1500 pts game. Lord Kroak blast seems a bit difficult. Unless ofcourse you decide to sacrifice the shadow host and decide to camp with kroak, eternal starhost scroll and chakax with phoenix stone. Which seems like a boring plan to me.

 

[darren watson]

Sorry pal, just seen this. I replied to your message ☺ hope it helps

 

[darren watson]

Hi pal, sorry I have just seen this! Kroak is great especially with a shadowstrike force as the Ripperdactyl's off the table should force your opponent to castle up when he deploys. (If he doesn't protect his skyfires,even better).

For 1500 I'd perhaps consider

Kroak+vortex 640
Astrolith 160-Phoenix Stone
Starpriest 100
Assassin (deployed in the rippers) obstinate blade so he has rend -1) 80

30 skinks boltspitters and shields in 3 units of 10 240

3 Ripperdactyls 140

Shadowstrike 120

1480 so you might also get a triumph roll that will either benefit your assassin if you get reroll hits or wounds or your rippers if you get reroll saves.

Kroak works best at 2000 because you can fit in a starseer and his curse of fate spell helps get kroak up on his vortex.

Deploy kroak near arcane or inspiring terrain, plant that standard and use your rerolls to make sure he gets up on that vortex.
You can move your skinks before the game so can get them into a decent position to help clear any screening units so your rippers can break through to the decent units youropponent has.

The star priests spell cast on kroak is immense and if you've managed to kill the shamans with Kroak's spells his skyfires can no longer mortal wound you on 6's ☺

It's difficult to fit kroak and 6 rippers in 1500, so the assassin really helps beef them up especially if you can get him into a character (Archaon).

Hope thishelps mate, let me know how you get on

 

[Seraphage]

Hi pal, sorry I have just seen this! Kroak is great especially with a shadowstrike force as the Ripperdactyl's off the table should force your opponent to castle up when he deploys. (If he doesn't protect his skyfires,even better).

For 1500 I'd perhaps consider

Kroak+vortex 640
Astrolith 160-Phoenix Stone
Starpriest 100
Assassin (deployed in the rippers) obstinate blade so he has rend -1) 80

30 skinks boltspitters and shields in 3 units of 10 240

3 Ripperdactyls 140

Shadowstrike 120

1480 so you might also get a triumph roll that will either benefit your assassin if you get reroll hits or wounds or your rippers if you get reroll saves.

Kroak works best at 2000 because you can fit in a starseer and his curse of fate spell helps get kroak up on his vortex.

Deploy kroak near arcane or inspiring terrain, plant that standard and use your rerolls to make sure he gets up on that vortex.
You can move your skinks before the game so can get them into a decent position to help clear any screening units so your rippers can break through to the decent units youropponent has.

The star priests spell cast on kroak is immense and if you've managed to kill the shamans with Kroak's spells his skyfires can no longer mortal wound you on 6's ☺

It's difficult to fit kroak and 6 rippers in 1500, so the assassin really helps beef them up especially if you can get him into a character (Archaon).

Hope thishelps mate, let me know how you get on

hey @darren watson I would like to ask a couple of questions myself !

1. Don't have the miniatures for the shadowstrike yet *which honestly seems our best batallion* but I get the feeling it would better work with 6 Ripperdactyls over 3. Do you agree?

2. Are Ripperdactyls overpowering Terradons anyday or would you consider to use them and why ?

thanks !

 

[Bowser]

Mote of anything is usually better, but can you justify the points?

Rippers and terradons serve different roles. Rippers will be hyper focused on dealing a lot of damage to a target, where as Terradons can take advantage of disrupting multiple targets. So it depends on what your build and playstyle is.

 

[darren watson]

hey @darren watson I would like to ask a couple of questions myself !

1. Don't have the miniatures for the shadowstrike yet *which honestly seems our best batallion* but I get the feeling it would better work with 6 Ripperdactyls over 3. Do you agree?

2. Are Ripperdactyls overpowering Terradons anyday or would you consider to use them and why ?

thanks !

I found 9 rippers probably did the same job as 6. When I was making the list I was happy with the basic concept but kroak can't deal with hoards, needed a unit to take out 40 Bonesplitterz or 40 skeletons etc. That's where the rippers came in.

6 is the optimal size if you have the points

My preference is Ripperdactyls over Terradons. Your opponent is more worried about rippers and psychology plays a huge part in games