AoS Legacy WHFB vs AoS

[Qupakoco]

Just a quick foreword, please try to keep any responses as unbiased as possible.


I've been into Warhammer since 5th edition and haven't really taken the AoS pill yet. Reading some of the more recent battle reports has left me feeling a little more on the fence however. So now that Age of Sigmar has been out for a good year or so, I'm curious to hear if there are any "converts" with experience in both the old and new systems of Warhammer.

Unfortunately in my area it's somewhat dried up, so motivation is difficult at best. That said, I'd like to hear back from those of you who are able and willing to bloody your knuckles with the new system. Here's a quick list of possible feedback points:

How is game length, on average?

How much does the movement phase effect the gameplay?

Do you encounter "Rules Lawyering" with the simplified ruleset?

Do you miss "Special Rules" or do you even notice?

What is the overall level of enjoyment?

Does the change in fluff cause any confusion during gameplay?


Thanks everyone!

 

[Bowser]

I played 8th from close to the beginning of it, then through the end times, then AOS.



How is game length, on average?
On average about the same as a game of 8th. Depending on points and how evenly matched the armies are.

How much does the movement phase effect the gameplay?
Huge. Movement is just as important as any version of warhammer or any strategy game. Just as in older versions, your Movement determines charges, your opponents move, etc. There is no facing so you don't have the traditional flank, but two pile ins means trouble. Just as a flank would cause you issues.

Do you encounter "Rules Lawyering" with the simplified ruleset?
Absolutely, the FAQ for rules and generals handbook is proof of that. Not nearly as bad as 8th edition, but that's partially on the intuitive, easier to read through rules and mostly on GW opening up, and providing more support.

Do you miss "Special Rules" or do you even notice?
Each warscroll has its own special rules. And with allegiance abilities, not just the main 4 either, there is a ton of specialization.

What is the overall level of enjoyment?
From day 1 I have enjoyed this game more than 8th edition. Intuitive ruleset kept the arguements to a minimum. The addition of points brought in a ton of new players and old platers coming back, who teach you new tricks, or tactics from the old game or games into the new realm. It's a different game, so I can't compare apples to oranges, while both have their advantage and weaknesses, neither is better, neither provides better tactics, the two games are different but similar.

Does the change in fluff cause any confusion during gameplay?
I haven't encountered any confusion based on the fluff. Other than they should be able to do this or that, but had the same for 8th. The fluff and the crunch almost never match up.

 

[MerciaBear]

As a new player to AoS but a veteran of countless other systems I will add the following:

AoS exemplifies the following adage: Simple to Learn, Difficult to Master.

Its really easy to remember movement, charges etc. But using these simple rules (and some special ones) to your advantage is the key to victory. i.e.

Multiple pile ins: Do this correctly and you stretch out and confuse the defending unit, meaning a lot of their models cant hit back (just like flanking charges).

Rolling for initiative: A good player has to play as if his opponent will get two concurrent turns, over extend and you will die. Rush at the enemy with your deathstar unit first turn and you might have to face two turns of shooting and multiple charges out of position.

Buffing troops: Make your average troops godlike for one key turn only. Lots of Seraphon stuff for this sort of thing.

Multiple wound models: Lots of low model count units with high numbers of wounds, harder to wipe units in one turn.

Assault initiative: So you play elves? You cant rely on your high initiative anymore. You have to pick and choose which order to initiate combats in. Can your big monster survive attacks to hit second? Or do you choose to go first with it in order to guarantee some good hits on that unit.

 

[MerciaBear]

Also, feel free to keep your square bases! I put all my new stuff on square bases so I can still use them in older editions.

 

[Padre]

How is game length, on average?

How much does the movement phase effect the gameplay?

Do you encounter "Rules Lawyering" with the simplified ruleset?

Do you miss "Special Rules" or do you even notice?

What is the overall level of enjoyment?

Does the change in fluff cause any confusion during gameplay?


Thanks everyone!

Good question and one we probably need to keep going back to. FYI, I am a fairly experienced gamer, playing a lot of 8th and some 6th and 7th WHFB. I picked up AoS at the beginning, enjoyed it, then my group dropped it and came back when the General's Handbook came out.

Game length: The games take about the same amount of time, but, at least in my area, there is more acceptance of smaller point games in AoS. Also, I think AoS scales better, so 1000 pt games are just as fun and balanced as 2000 pt.

Movement: It's not as key as it was in WHFB, so it's a lot more forgiving. I find it's equivalent to 40k in complexity and importance.

Rules Lawyering: Some, but nowhere near as much.

Special Rules: As was said above, the special rules are still there, but they are all contained in the unit warscrolls. I feel like there is not as much flipping back and forth in AoS.

Enjoyment: Both are fun, but different games. It's hard to compare them.

Fluff confusion: I haven't seen any confusion. I miss some of the fluff from WHFB, but that is because there was a lot more depth after 30 years of development.

Probably the biggest thing I miss is the magic phase and having a more complex magic system. I liked how a couple subtle spells at key points could tip the entire game in your favor. There is less of that in AoS, you can get away with not having any magic or magic defenses from what I've seen. But, as we saw in 8th, too much magic could make the game unfun as well. "Oops, I just threw a Purple Sun down your entire line and wrecked your entire army. Sorry." YMMV.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

please try to keep any responses as unbiased as possible

*And with that, NIGHTBRINGER slowly and discreetly exited the room*

 

[Killer Angel]

As Bowser, I was into WHFB since 8th, and later I've also played a couple of games in 7th

How is game length, on average?

usually shorter than 8th. Much more fast to do a list.

How much does the movement phase effect the gameplay?

A lot. In a different ways than WHFB (there's no thing as flank charge or similar, but there are many other things that cannot be ignored)

Do you encounter "Rules Lawyering" with the simplified ruleset?

Yes, but not at the same level of 8th, by far.

What is the overall level of enjoyment?

I really like AoS. I've tried to play again 8th... and it wasn't a pleasant experience. I don't think i want to come back to it... and i love napoleonic warfare!

Does the change in fluff cause any confusion during gameplay?

I'd say no. But that's a thing that i miss from oldhammer: the fluff was much more tied to the game.

 

[Canas]

As someone with little experience with warhammer, but with a lot of experience with strategy games in general:

How much does the movement phase effect the gameplay?
A lot, but it rapidly gets a smaller influence as battles become smaller in scale. Especially when fielding small units of elite troops. A unit of 5 models can't really be stretched out over a large area, so flanking doesn't end up doing much. But a horde unit can be prevented from piling in effectivly by attacking it from different directions fairly easily.

Do you encounter "Rules Lawyering" with the simplified ruleset?
Not particularly. Most rules are clear enough, though some are questionable.

Do you miss "Special Rules" or do you even notice?
Yes & no. There's plenty of abilities to make units special, but few interactions between them. Most counters revolve around just murdering the source. Which personally I find a bit dissapointing.

Also, magic is a bit too simple at the moment. Given that few wizards have more than 1 special spell & the two basic spells they frequently end up just spamming the same one over and over during the match. Especially wen the special spell fullfills the same basic niche as the basic spells it gets a bit boring.

What is the overall level of enjoyment?
High, its simple, reasonably fast, has enough depth but can be fairly easily picked up.

Does the change in fluff cause any confusion during gameplay?
Not really, you just have the same as with any other game. Every so often some unit ends up being utterly over/underpowered when compared to his fluff. In my personal experience this is the sunblood, but that might just be my abysmall rolls

 

[Qupakoco]

Great feedback, everyone. I'm glad to hear that the game itself has been overall enjoyable!