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AoS Summoning, is there a point when we have points?

Scalenex
Slann

Scalenex

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So I am a very late comer to Age of Sigmar, so I hope this isn't a stupid question.

Slann have lots of summoning powers. If summoned units come out of our points allocation, is it worth it? Yes, you get some flexibility, but If you bring a unit with you in your starting army, you get it all five rounds of a game. If you summon it round two, you only get it for four rounds. If you summon it round two you only get it for three rounds.

How do we use summoning powers tactically?

My best guess given how much the General's Compendium places stock on holding objectives that you use summoned troops to occupy objectives on the fly.
 
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Scalenex said:
So I am a very late comer to Age of Sigmar, so I hope this isn't a stupid question.

Slann have lots of summoning powers. If summoned units come out of our points allocation, is it worth it? Yes, you get some flexibility, but If you bring a unit with you in your starting army, you get it all five rounds of a game. If you summon it round two, you only get it for four rounds. If you summon it round two you only get it for three rounds.

How do we use summoning powers tactically?

My best guess given how much the General's Compendium places stock on holding objectives that you use summoned troops to occupy objectives on the fly.
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Pretty much but you can also summon in when your in danger, need a screen for your slann? summon in some warriors etc etc

I have not played AOS for a long time but seeing the serge in activity on here is making me want to start again.
 
I am positive that summoning can play a huge role for experienced players but being the newb I am, I really hope more experienced players will answer to this post so we can get to understand more about it

Good question Scalenex !
 
Sometimes it's great for a surprise pop up, most times it is board control and Mind games. Oops you brought cannons? Let's just pop this up right there. Oh look I have 300 points left let me just put my options right over there. 15 guard oh I see where they could go. Wait you had a tough time with the bastiladons? You're going to love this third one. But at the same time, all it does is work like a mining unit or stormfriends. They pop up when you need them where you need them.
But it is a much better ability in free play than in matched play.
 
How do armies that are not Lizards, Chaos, or Undead balance the summoning (in matched play)?
 
Bowser said:
Wait you had a tough time with the bastiladons? You're going to love this third one.
Click to expand...

That should just be my motto at this point tbh.

But Bowser is absolutely right, it is to provide real time solutions to problems as they arise. I'm still not totally sold on the idea, but conceptually it could be pretty effective. That is, of course, if the dice gods are smiling on you when you try.
 
InfamousBeany said:
That should just be my motto at this point tbh.

But Bowser is absolutely right, it is to provide real time solutions to problems as they arise. I'm still not totally sold on the idea, but conceptually it could be pretty effective. That is, of course, if the dice gods are smiling on you when you try.
Click to expand...

Good reason to save them reroll dice.....
 
First of all, welcome to AoS! :)

I'd add that summoning with points may still be exceptionally useful, for its surprise factor... and we can really exploit it: one of summoning disadvantage is the limited range, so why should I summon when I can simply field it in the set-up?
Luckily, we can really boost our sumoning range.
A Slann with astrolith bearer and arcane vassal can summon a trio of salamanders at 38" (!) and blast a target that was thinking to be safe. Those salamanders can hurt more than if they were included in the initial set-up, so they are worth their reserve points.

It cannot be done for units that rely on bonuses granted by size, but summoning really got its niche.
 
So summoning has these things going for it:

First - As mentioned, you get what you need where you need it.
Secondly - which is implied but not explicitly stated, is that you only set aside points - you dont have to declare what models you are trying to summon in, which leaves you open to be able to summon in counters for the army that you are facing. You effectively get to build a list on the fly assuming that you have the points for it.

Downsides -
First - summoners die. If so-and-so killed your Slaan that you have 1000 summoning points set aside for in turn 1 somehow, you just brought 1000 points to a 2000 point game and never had a game to start with.
Secondly - range, but as mentioned you can boost that.
Third - placements of units will be very important tactically as if you try to summon duders up the board as far as possible, they are very vulnerable.

Honestly - I'm not too sold on the summoning thing, but it has its place. In my next game vs my dwarf friend. I am pulling out the following:

2 x Slaan
Balewind Vortex
the rest reserve points

Hopefully one of the Slaans get +1 cast constellation.
Summon Astrolith bearer (+8" range)
Summon Balewind vortex (double spell range)
Summon something with "Arcane Vassal" (8 inches + double range from this model = wherever you want)
Use the obscene summoning range to summon a ton of stuff behind everything... profit??

I know its a total joke list, but think it could be pretty fun to try to pull off :)
 
m0gstar said:
So summoning has these things going for it:

First - As mentioned, you get what you need where you need it.
Secondly - which is implied but not explicitly stated, is that you only set aside points - you dont have to declare what models you are trying to summon in, which leaves you open to be able to summon in counters for the army that you are facing. You effectively get to build a list on the fly assuming that you have the points for it.

Downsides -
First - summoners die. If so-and-so killed your Slaan that you have 1000 summoning points set aside for in turn 1 somehow, you just brought 1000 points to a 2000 point game and never had a game to start with.
Secondly - range, but as mentioned you can boost that.
Third - placements of units will be very important tactically as if you try to summon duders up the board as far as possible, they are very vulnerable.

Honestly - I'm not too sold on the summoning thing, but it has its place. In my next game vs my dwarf friend. I am pulling out the following:

2 x Slaan
Balewind Vortex
the rest reserve points

Hopefully one of the Slaans get +1 cast constellation.
Summon Astrolith bearer (+8" range)
Summon Balewind vortex (double spell range)
Summon something with "Arcane Vassal" (8 inches + double range from this model = wherever you want)
Use the obscene summoning range to summon a ton of stuff behind everything... profit??

I know its a total joke list, but think it could be pretty fun to try to pull off :)
Click to expand...
That sounds incredibly fun, though I might switch slann 2 for an engine, so I can summon a slann back if I need to! ;)
 
It's very useful you just need to be careful with it. The dice gods have cursed me before and Lord Kroak with an Astrolith failed 4 casting attempts to bring in even a Bastiladon.

However it makes you're army extreme flexible. And an easy way to bypass the limit of Behemoths. So you can place those two Carnosaurs on the field and then summon in a Bastiladon and Stegadon right away in a position you want them to be based on where you're opponent set up. You could in fact roll up with only a Slann and your Battleline and summon the entire rest of your army. Putting things like Skinks on objectives you need to take last moments of a game or fortifying a position that's about to fall with something like Saurus Guard.
This is extremely good in a tournament as you can more or less tailor a list against your opponent on the fly (as long as the tournament has a side bar of some sorts to choose from).
 
Okay so you set aside points for flexibility in being able to summon specific counters but there is a cost.

Risk, the summoner could die or you could flub a summoning roll
Timing, you get your units for fewer turns than you would usually get

My conclusion is that setting aside points for summoning is not stupid, but it is risky. I will try it for casual games once in a while for fun but I think that be something I won't be gutsy enough to try in a tournament environment. Also, tournaments have crowded tables and tight time limits making contemplating a diverse summoning side board mildly annoying to my opponents.
 
I would not take a summoning army to a tournament, for all the reasons you just described, I might have some put aside, but I think a shadowstrike mught be more reliable for tournaments.
 
Another great strength that has not been mentioned, first turn shenanigans!
Most armies are lacklustre in the first turn and getting the first turn puts them at a great disadvantage.
By summoning you are able to cap objectives with though units and deal considerable damage.

Set your star master on top of a balewind fortex next to a sauros astrolith bearer and summon heroes and troops on the objectives.
Make it tanky shooty units and you have won half the battle. This works great at gifts from the heavens and blood and glory.
 
I think if you'd like to explore the possibilities of summoning, you should head over to ol' Warseer and check out a Deep Striking tactica. The effect to the game is very similar and I've known several players to rely on it.

But yes; seizing an objective, disrupting movement patterns, screening, and general shenanigans are all very valid possibilities. And everyone loves a third Basti.
 
meh, summoning is fairly lackluster. With the pointlimit it's just variation on deep striking that is more versatile in what you can get out, but more costly & more limited in terms of range when compared to the other variations. In smaller fights it's borderline useless, you need to save too many points to make a real difference, and with only a handfull of units walking around there probably isn't much that you can do in terms of tactically striking vulnerable positions in the opponents formation, especially since flanking doesn't give you a bonus.

On bigger battles this becomes less of an issue though the risk of your slann dying prematurely becomes greater. Also, it doesn't help that the rule of one + the limited spell lists prevents the slann from doing all that much else with its magic if you choose not to summon during a turn.

All in all it can make a massive difference simply because summoning back the big bad monster that your opponent just spend ages trying to take down can spell doom for him. But the lists of drawbacks is long. Personally I'd rather would've seen summoning limited by a rule along the lines of "only x% of your force may be summonend at any given time" or "if the summoner dies all summoned troops die/suffer damage". Seems like that would be better to keep it relevant.
 
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