KoW 2000pts for Fools of War!

[BAE]

I have a two day, 2000pts tournament coming up on April 1st / 2nd in Stockport (@Crowsfoot you might be able to make that as you're in the North West if I remember correctly?) and would appreciate some advice on a list. The main lesson I've taken away from all my games so far is to replace everything with Fire Elementals. As such, I came up with a list that includes one more horde, as well as a couple of other changes. However, I'm currently over points so wanted to see what people might suggest to get me back under the 2000pts mark. This is the list as it stands:

Heros
- CLoFD w/ Winged, The Fog (*hat tip @Negator *)
- Clan Lord w/ Firebolts & Wings of Honeymaze
- Mage-Priest w/ Mounted Myrddin's Amulet of the Fire-heart & Surge
- Mage-Priest w/ Inspiring Talisman & Surge
- Herald w/ Diadem of Dragon-kind, Healing Charm The Boomstick

Monsters
- Greater Fire Elemental
- Lekelidon
- Lekelidon

Hordes
- Fire Elementals
- Fire Elementals
- Salamander Primes w/ Brew of Haste

Regiments
- Kaisenor Lancers w/ Maccwar's Potion of the Caterpillar
- Ghekkotah Warriors

Troops
- Salamander Unblooded
- Salamander Unblooded

After the alterations that leaves me 15 points under. I'm currently leaning towards Brew of Haste on the Prime Horde but do people have any other ideas? Maybe changing a Troop of Unbloodeds into Primes? Or something else?

 

[Crowsfoot]

Could you drop a regiment of Ember sprites and add the 45 points left in items?

And I will look at coming over to watch the Torny.

 

[BAE]

Could you drop a regiment of Ember sprites and add the 45 points left in items?

And I will look at coming over to watch the Torny.

I was toying with that idea, but I'm quite magic item heavy already and I'm quite liking the 13 drops! But then the only other option is to drop some magic items, which then stops the various units currently carrying them from doing what I need them to.

 

[Crowsfoot]

I was toying with that idea, but I'm quite magic item heavy already and I'm quite liking the 13 drops! But then the only other option is to drop some magic items, which then stops the various units currently carrying them from doing what I need them to.

Or drop the Lancers down to a troop and use the 25 points left?

 

[Negator]

I have a two day, 2000pts tournament coming up on April 1st / 2nd in Stockport (@Crowsfoot you might be able to make that as you're in the North West if I remember correctly?) and would appreciate some advice on a list. The main lesson I've taken away from all my games so far is to replace everything with Fire Elementals. As such, I came up with a list that includes one more horde, as well as a couple of other changes. However, I'm currently over points so wanted to see what people might suggest to get me back under the 2000pts mark. This is the list as it stands:

Heros
- CLoFD w/ Winged & Ensorcelled Armour
- Mage-Priest w/ Mounted, Myrddin's Amulet of the Fire-heart & Surge
- Mage-Priest w/ Inspiring Talisman & Surge
- Herald w/ Diadem of Dragon-kind

Monsters
- Greater Fire Elemental
- Lekelidon
- Lekelidon

Hordes
- Fire Elementals
- Fire Elementals
- Salamander Primes

Regiments
- Ember Sprites (*)
- Ember Sprites (*)
- Kaisenor Lancers w/ Maccwar's Potion of the Caterpillar

That puts me 35pts over. Any suggestions to bring it down a touch?

looks great man, id probably drop the primes for unblooded to make room

 

[BAE]

Or drop the Lancers down to a troop and use the 25 points left?

I really need them to be punchy unfortunately as most of the time they'll be hitting units' fronts. They'll be hiding behind either a Lekelidon or Sprites, but I've got no units earmarked to team up with them to increase the total damage output. I really need them to hit and seriously hurt in one turn.

looks great man, id probably drop the primes for unblooded to make room

I'd not thought of that... But without Pathfinder would a unit of that sheer size not get extraordinarily unwieldy? It definitely makes sense if it were not for that.

 

[BAE]

Could you drop a regiment of Ember sprites and add the 45 points left in items?

And I will look at coming over to watch the Torny.

And I completely missed the second line of this! That's awesome! How come you're not thinking to play if you can come along??

 

[Crowsfoot]

And I completely missed the second line of this! That's awesome! How come you're not thinking to play if you can come along??

Got the details?

 

[BAE]

Got the details?

I have attached the Tournament pack to the original post. For the 'official' page (if there are updates posted etc.) join Kings of War Fanatics on Facebook and then Fools of War! 2 Day KoW Event. I'm hardly a tournament veteran but if you have any questions, or need any support with anything, just let me know and I'll do what I can to help!

 

[Negator]

I really need them to be punchy unfortunately as most of the time they'll be hitting units' fronts. They'll be hiding behind either a Lekelidon or Sprites, but I've got no units earmarked to team up with them to increase the total damage output. I really need them to hit and seriously hurt in one turn.



I'd not thought of that... But without Pathfinder would a unit of that sheer size not get extraordinarily unwieldy? It definitely makes sense if it were not for that.

Yeah, I just figured you could deploy around the terrain and position the elementals and vac to fight through it

 

[BAE]

Yeah, I just figured you could deploy around the terrain and position the elementals and vac to fight through it

That is a very, very good point! When I started they were the only unit with Pathfinder. Now pretty much the whole army has it!

 

[BAE]

looks great man, id probably drop the primes for unblooded to make room

I've been thinking about this suggestion. I know I might be forced into opting for it, but a horde of Unbloodeds are considerably worse than Primes. For 40 points more, Primes have +1 Defence, 1 higher nerve and Pathfinder. That might not sound much, but the difference in outcome is pretty considerable. The most probable chance of routing is 50% once Unbloodeds have been hit 28 times, Primes can take 46. If the opponent has CS(1), Unbloodeds will have 50% chance of routing after 21 hits, Primes 30. That's about a third more 'sticking power'. And Pathfinder on top of that!

Essentially, due to the huge footprint the only way I can think to use Primes/Unbloodeds is as an anvil refusing a flank. Without sticking power, I just can't see the point of them... Any ideas?

 

[Negator]

I've been thinking about this suggestion. I know I might be forced into opting for it, but a horde of Unbloodeds are considerably worse than Primes. For 40 points more, Primes have +1 Defence, 1 higher nerve and Pathfinder. That might not sound much, but the difference in outcome is pretty considerable. The most probable chance of routing is 50% once Unbloodeds have been hit 28 times, Primes can take 46. If the opponent has CS(1), Unbloodeds will have 50% chance of routing after 21 hits, Primes 30. That's about a third more 'sticking power'. And Pathfinder on top of that!

Essentially, due to the huge footprint the only way I can think to use Primes/Unbloodeds is as an anvil refusing a flank. Without sticking power, I just can't see the point of them... Any ideas?

thats a very good point and is making me question using regiments of unblooded over primes lol.

It does however make me think that 3-4 troops of unblooded with 2h weapons has merit by simply ignoring defense altogether and trying to match them up against stuff with CS2 to start with.

 

[BAE]

I've left it a while, gone back to the list and made a few alterations to the first post that leave me 15pts under. Annoyingly it's not 20 as I am loath to have both MPs unmounted. Double-surging often requires a burst of speed to line them both up so losing the Kaiesnor is quite painful. Any ideas to finish the list off?

Rather nicely I'll have the opportunity to test the list sooner than Fools of War - I'm attending Norwich Clash of Kings pt 2 in March and I'll be using whatever the list above ends up being. The army is distinctly not suited for the scenarios in the tournament but I'll hit and hope! I'm particularly concerned by Control!, in which I got absolutely mullered during Clash of Kings proper. I'm thinking my only hope is to treat it as a Kill! scenario and go for a tabling.

It does however make me think that 3-4 troops of unblooded with 2h weapons has merit by simply ignoring defense altogether and trying to match them up against stuff with CS2 to start with.

Unbloodeds can't swap to 2h weapons?

 

[Negator]

Yeah i was mistaken lol. Would be nice though

 

[BAE]

I had a bit of a rethink on this - my CLoWFD has been a decidedly poor performer in my last few battles. Through some simple anti-flying tactics (surgers, Ogre heralds etc.) he really hasn't been able to get into the fight: he either spends most of his time facing the wrong way, or attacking low value units with a fairly ineffective breath weapon. For 315pts I'm wanting to cause some serious damage, and I don't think he made his points up even once lately. As such, I'm thinking of removing him and replacing him with a Clan Lord w/ Firebolts and Wings. I would use this unit more as an anti-flier/shooter/war machine hunter, rather than the threat projection of the CLoWFD, but he would still retain some ranged capability to force nerve checks even when not in combat.

This also frees up 100pts, but the only thing I can think to use it on is a regiment of Ghekkotah Warriors, which from previous experience are pretty pathetic. However, I don't have the unlocks to be able to take another monster/hero.

Other alterations is giving the Herald The Boomstick. He's had it the last few battles and it has worked remarkably well. Salamanders have very little ranged firepower, and this definitely helped chip some wounds off things at a distance.

Any ideas on whether the above decisions are sensible? Playing with an individual flier is something I've never done before and requires a rather different play style. However, I can't really test as the list has to be sent in by 20th March.

 

[Itepixcauh]

I like the Change on the Lord. For me CLoWFD is not worth it with just 8 attacks, I prefer to use him without wings as a backfield support with the Banner of the Griffin.

Ghekkotah warriors are indeed pathetic but you can buy a troop of Warriors and the boomstick for the Herald, I think it is a good way to spend the points. I love to have plenty of chaff, chaff has won me more games than any other thing in my army. I've won games just by chaffing up the most important unit of the enemy and charging next turn with my hammers.

Another alternative is a Regiment of Ember Sprites, but I´m not sure they are even worth it.