KoW 1500pts for Push and Control Scenarios

[BAE]

I've organised two games on Wednesday against the Ratkin player I played as warm up for Clash of Kings. To make things interesting we've agreed on 1500pts and will play both Push! and Control! scenarios in two consecutive games. The same list should be used for both, but as he's more experienced he is allowing me to change lists between them if needed. Push and Control are probably the most polar opposite of scenarios so list building has been hard, particularly as fewer than 2000pts always means hard choices.

As neither scenario is in the rule book (they were played at Clash of Kings), I will quickly recap:

Push!

Set-up
Place one loot counter in the dead centre of the table. After all units have been placed on both sides but before any Vanguard moves, roll a D3 and assign that many additional loot counters to each player. Starting with the player that placed the first unit, players alternate placing these loot counters into their own set-up areas. Set-up ends when both players have placed all of their units and loot counters.

Loot counters may be carried by units starting the game on them. Controlling, capturing and carrying loot counters works in exactly the same way as described in the standard Loot! scenario. However, loot counters in Push! cannot be taken off the table.

Objective
At the end of the game, you score 1 Loot Point for each loot counter in the possession of one of your units, and an additional +1 Loot Point for each loot counter you hold where the unit possessing it is entirely in your opponent’s half of the table.

If you score more Loot Points than your opponent, you win, otherwise the game is a draw.

Control!

Objective
At the end of the game, divide the table into six 2’x2’ squares (or equal sized areas for other table sizes). Add up the total points of each player’s non-Individual units within each square. If one player has more points in units than their opponent in a given square then they “control” that square and get 1 Control Point. If a player controls the square in the centre of their opponents half of the table, that player gets an additional Control Point (so it is worth 2 CPs to control your opponent’s central square).

The player with the most Control Points wins. If the players have an equal amount of Control Points then the game is a draw.

If a unit is straddling the line between 2 or more squares then they are considered to be in whichever one the majority of their base is within, otherwise, the owning player must choose one of the squares to count their unit in.

The two lists I have come up with are below. If people could suggest improvements to any elements (lists, strategy etc.) it would be appreciated! I can't work out which one might fare best in both games so I'm struggling to decide between them.

'Standard' List

Battle Group 1
- Mage-Priest w/ Inspiring Talisman & Surge
- Greater Fire Elemental
- Fire Elementals Horde
Battle Group 2
- Ghekkotah Skylord
- Ghekkotah Skylord w/ Brew of Strength
- Lekelidon
- Lekelidon
Battle Group 3
- Ghekkotah Warriors Regiment
- Tyrants Horde w/ Brew of Haste
- Kaisenor Lancers Regiment w/ Caterpillar

Battle Groups
BG1 - Punchy and surgable
BG2 - Ranged and flying harassment
BG3 - Punchy and fast(er than really slow things)

Push Strategy
FEs and GFE in BG1 can carry objectives and be surged, so they are the primary objective takers, with Lekelidons carrying any additional while harassing at range. BG3 is primarily to hit the opponent - I would have preferred a little more chaff to cover them, but I'm hoping the distraction of having BGs 1 & 2 going for the objectives will reduce the amount of fire they take.

Control Strategy
BG1 on near flank, BG3 on far (same) flank, but with Ghekkotah in the centre providing cover from shooting from the opponent's opposite flank. BG2 distributed as scenery dictates, but weighted towards the other flank. BG1 & 3 push forward to the centre line and inwards, trying to finish on the point at which 4 squares intersect. BG2 to use speed / fly to rush the two squares on the opposite flank.

MSU List

I'm not even sure if the principle of 'Battle Groups' even works for this...

- Ghekkotah Skylord
- Battle-Captain w/ Wings
- Lekelidon
- Lekelidon
- Lekelidon
- Herald w/ Diadem of Dragonkind
- Kaisenor Lancers Regiment w/ Caterpillar
- Ghekkotah Warriors Regiment
- Ghekkotah Warriors Regiment
- Salamander Primes Troop w/ Two-Handed Weapons
- Salamander Primes Troop w/ Two-Handed Weapons
- Salamander Primes Troop
- Salamander Primes Troop
- Salamander Unblooded Troop

Push Strategy
Screen Salamander Troops with yet more Salamander Troops who pick up objectives and run forwards while harassing the enemy with flyers and ranged. Use Kaisenors to threaten regions to control opponent's movement.

Control Strategy
Swarm around and hit things in flanks as MSU lists allow you to create constant charge traps. Hope that by the end I have enough in each section of the board.

 

[Crowsfoot]

Can you take pics of the games please, can't comment on the above as I'm not that experienced but they both look mobile.

 

[Itepixcauh]

What can I say about list number 1, that is basically the core of my everyday list with some changes as I still use the Ankylodon stubbornly. Love it, dual Skylords work really well and I like the addition of the two lekelidons, specially for Control. Movement 7 really shines for a last turn rush.

I would still keep the Ankylodon for Push (I know, I know) but coupled with a herald with Heal and the usual support I can be virtually inmortal. Just give him all the tokens and advance. Keeping it well protected and with its very small footprint It can be game breaking.

I've never been an expert of MSU list, not my type of thing really, so I'm not a good judge but it looks good. If you test it please let us know how it fared.

 

[BAE]

Can you take pics of the games please, can't comment on the above as I'm not that experienced but they both look mobile.

It's all take, take, take with you! I'll try to remember to take photos. There will definitely be one at the start and end, but I can't guarantee I'll remember once I'm focused on the game!

What can I say about list number 1, that is basically the core of my everyday list with some changes as I still use the Ankylodon stubbornly. Love it, dual Skylords work really well and I like the addition of the two lekelidons, specially for Control. Movement 7 really shines for a last turn rush.

I would still keep the Ankylodon for Push (I know, I know) but coupled with a herald with Heal and the usual support I can be virtually inmortal. Just give him all the tokens and advance. Keeping it well protected and with its very small footprint It can be game breaking.

I've never been an expert of MSU list, not my type of thing really, so I'm not a good judge but it looks good. If you test it please let us know how it fared.

It should be the same list for both games, and while I admit the Ankylodon might be of some use in Push it would be utterly useless in Control. I could probably guarantee winning one square, but that is at the expense of having the flexibility to capture others. Dual Skylords I've never run before - the idea has been floating around my head ever since you first mentioned it but for 2000pts I can't see the advantage when you could take a CLoFD. However, sub-2000pts, with the need to keep flexibility, it suddenly seems like a more plausible choice.

My main concern is that the first list doesn't seem to contain enough chaff... I can see the elementals coming under quite a bit of fire and they've got very little to defend themselves with. Any ideas on changes?

 

[Itepixcauh]

It should be the same list for both games, and while I admit the Ankylodon might be of some use in Push it would be utterly useless in Control. I could probably guarantee winning one square, but that is at the expense of having the flexibility to capture others. Dual Skylords I've never run before - the idea has been floating around my head ever since you first mentioned it but for 2000pts I can't see the advantage when you could take a CLoFD. However, sub-2000pts, with the need to keep flexibility, it suddenly seems like a more plausible choice.

My main concern is that the first list doesn't seem to contain enough chaff... I can see the elementals coming under quite a bit of fire and they've got very little to defend themselves with. Any ideas on changes?

Well given that you will use the same list for both games, then obviously the Ankylodon is of no use.

List one has plenty of chaff in my opinion, you have the regiment of Ghekkoath Warriors and two lekelidons. Lekelidons work wonders as chaff, they are cheap (cheaper that the expendable Warriors) and useful till you need them to die. Also movement 7 means that you can move a huge distance to block a charge or give cover.

Changes..... well I like the Blade of the Beast Slayer on my skylord, but I agree that the Brew of strength is better. Also I like to give my Large Infantry some magic item to make them a bit more reliable (the idea to hit on a +4 always seems to random for me) but you would have to leave the Skylords naked to do it (Blessing of the Gods) Apart from that I really like the list as I've said, it's very solid

 

[BAE]

Sorry, @Crowsfoot , I completely forgot to take photos!

I got hammered in both games. I found his shooting too difficult too deal with - there was enough for it to count, so I couldn't sit back and ignore it, but it wasn't so much that he didn't have enough close combat units to cause problems for my advancing units. Having to slow down and manoeuvre to try and get the upper hand in close combat meant them being shot at for a couple of turns so I was going into combat weaker than I'd want.

I can't remember enough to write a proper battle report, but here are a couple of thoughts on the units:

Ghekkotah Skylords - they died pretty much instantly. Being De4+ and only NE11/13 meant a few shots with Piercing and they were gone. I might not have used them as effectively as possible (I've always played a De6+ CLoFD and am therefore better versed in flying tactics appropriate to that), but I couldn't see how I could have protected them any more than I did. If an opponent can sit back more and you have to push forward (usually when they have more shooting, which will be most of the time for Sallies), I can't see how to keep them alive.

Ghekkotah Warriors - probably bad luck, but they wavered in both games, holding up my Tyrants. They've wavered in previous games as well, and that one result can lose the game by holding things up behind. I'm thinking to replace them with Ember Sprites. It'll be a shame to lose a point of Speed, and I would be concerned that Ne10/12 is a little low against most armies, but I'd rather them dead than wavered. I also want to see whether there are any allies that might provide Ne-/11 chaff - that would be ideal.

Tyrants - fared well in the one combat they got in to. I'll have to use them a bit more to really get a feel for them.

Lekelidon - I've not used them as chaff before but they worked quite well. I wouldn't want them as designated chaff, but I'll definitely keep an eye on throwing them in front of things if the need arises in future. Being a 50x50 base also helped direct opponents. By turning the Lekelidon, you can make a charging unit face in pretty much any direction you want, which can be useful.

Mage Priest / GFE / FEs - the only units I was properly happy with!

. Also movement 7 means that you can move a huge distance to block a charge or give cover.

Lekelidons are Sp6!