AoS Guards on attack

[milman]

Just a quick question.
I know guards are meant to guard and be defensive.
But i don't like the warriors because there so many models and i don't think they do allot besides getting hit in the face
The knights i like better but they get to far ahead of th me rest.
Sooooo
My question is :
Can i use the guards for an infantry unit or is that gonna be a total fail?

 

[Bowser]

I use the guard fairly successfully on the offensive, the problem is they are expensive. Though you will find that they are an amazing unit to have as infantry.

 

[milman]

I use the guard fairly successfully on the offensive, the problem is they are expensive. Though you will find that they are an amazing unit to have as infantry.

Expensive to buy or expensive for army points? Becaus 100 isn't that much...only down side is only 1wound per model maybe...

What did you combine them with?

 

[Bowser]

100 points for 5 models instead of 10, but I usually use them in a bloodclaw and throw in a stegadon or bastiladon. Successfully took on Fyreslayers and a Clan Pestilens/Nurgle mix at the same time. These guard are tough units to crack, and while they may work better defensively, if you play them aggressively you can hold the action and steal objectives.

 

[milman]

100 points for 5 models instead of 10, but I usually use them in a bloodclaw and throw in a stegadon or bastiladon. Successfully took on Fyreslayers and a Clan Pestilens/Nurgle mix at the same time. These guard are tough units to crack, and while they may work better defensively, if you play them aggressively you can hold the action and steal objectives.

Brutes are 180 points for 5 so it could be worse and if you look at our own seraphon, 120points for 5 knights

Bloodclaw does sound like a great starhost oldblood,sunblood,warden and even one more hero!

 

[Bowser]

Bloodclaw does sound like a great starhost oldblood,sunblood,warden and even one more hero!

The use of their command abilities just makes any saurus unit so killy! It's definitely my favourite these days.

 

[milman]

The use of their command abilities just makes any saurus unit so killy! It's definitely my favourite these days.

What are the heroes you use for the bloodclaw killing spree?

 

[Bowser]

Normally The Oldblood on Carno, the Scar-Vet on Cold One, Sunblood, and Oldblood on foot. If I have the points I ditch the oldblood on foot and take the Scar-Vet on Carnosaur.

 

[Killer Angel]

if you look at our own seraphon, 120points for 5 knights

Knights are elite units, the same as guards. And knights are faster and each one got 2 wounds, so with 120 pts you're fielding models for a total of 10 wounds.
Guards are strong, but to field them in large number, you have to pay. 20 Guards mean 400 pts.
You can certainly do it, and they can certainly give you many satisfactions, but keep in mind that basically every army can field something that excels in killing costly elite units, and our guards suffer mortal wounds and high rend attacks.
Necropolis knights, Spirit hosts, Minotaurs, Stonehorns, Thundertusks, Hellcannons / Dwarfs cannons / Empire cannons, Jezzails... the list is long.

Obviously, what's good for the goose...
Hammerers are an excellent elite troop (especialy if backed by a runelord), but 180 pts of salamanders can easily wreck 400 pts of Hammerers.

 

[milman]

Knights are elite units, the same as guards. And knights are faster and each one got 2 wounds, so with 120 pts you're fielding models for a total of 10 wounds.
Guards are strong, but to field them in large number, you have to pay. 20 Guards mean 400 pts.
You can certainly do it, and they can certainly give you many satisfactions, but keep in mind that basically every army can field something that excels in killing costly elite units, and our guards suffer mortal wounds and high rend attacks.
Necropolis knights, Spirit hosts, Minotaurs, Stonehorns, Thundertusks, Hellcannons / Dwarfs cannons / Empire cannons, Jezzails... the list is long.

Obviously, what's good for the goose...
Hammerers are an excellent elite troop (especialy if backed by a runelord), but 180 pts of salamanders can easily wreck 400 pts of Hammerers.

My problem is that i think warriors dont do much and there are to many of them so thats why i was looking for something more "elite". So maybe better go knights then...? Or what do you suggest?
Thanks for all the tips so far! Great info!
Dont know alloy about other army's...yet

 

[Killer Angel]

My problem is that i think warriors dont do much and there are to many of them so thats why i was looking for something more "elite". So maybe better go knights then...? Or what do you suggest?
Thanks for all the tips so far! Great info!
Dont know alloy about other army's...yet

first thing to know: warriors are better than guards if you plan to throw big units in melee, accepting heavy losses but dealing good damage in return, while other heroes add their weight in the combat (sunblood, Carnosar and similar)
In defensive combat and employing smaller units, guards are better, hands down.
However, as said you must be aware that certain enemy units are a bane for elite troops as guards, so you must "protect" your points investment. This can be done in many ways:

avoid unwanted charges: you are slow, so the enemy can charge you easily. Surround your 2 "ranks" of 10 guards with a thin screen of 10 disposable, cheap skinks. If something wants to charge, it must clean your skinks before, or it will impact on your screen, without dealing damage to guards, that will be dragged in combat with "pile in".

Protect from shooting: increase your saves with magic or, even better, use Starlight to impose a -1 to hit to enemy units targetting the guards. This will work also in CC, to reduce the chances to be the victim of nasty effects (for example: bloodletters of Khorne inflicts a mortal woundsfor each 6+ to hit; if you reduce their to hit, you will be protected from one of your worst enemies: mortal wounds)

Scare your enemy: make your guards a truly fearsome threat in close combat, something the opponent will forever try to escape. This works really well with mixed armies (a combo of guards / mystic shield / eternity warden / Sisters of the thorn is devastating. Read the description of the spell of the sisters and smile), but can be done also with seraphon only units (keep your 15 guards in the range of 4 salamanders)


This is not perfect, there will always be something that will laugh at your tries and will just blast away your precious guards (dwarfs flame cannon, just to name one), but you will learn to know those threats, and will deal previously with them (shadowstrike starhost and / or chama skinks)

 

[milman]

first thing to know: warriors are better than guards if you plan to throw big units in melee, accepting heavy losses but dealing good damage in return, while other heroes add their weight in the combat (sunblood, Carnosar and similar)
In defensive combat and employing smaller units, guards are better, hands down.
However, as said you must be aware that certain enemy units are a bane for elite troops as guards, so you must "protect" your points investment. This can be done in many ways:

avoid unwanted charges: you are slow, so the enemy can charge you easily. Surround your 2 "ranks" of 10 guards with a thin screen of 10 disposable, cheap skinks. If something wants to charge, it must clean your skinks before, or it will impact on your screen, without dealing damage to guards, that will be dragged in combat with "pile in".

Protect from shooting: increase your saves with magic or, even better, use Starlight to impose a -1 to hit to enemy units targetting the guards. This will work also in CC, to reduce the chances to be the victim of nasty effects (for example: bloodletters of Khorne inflicts a mortal woundsfor each 6+ to hit; if you reduce their to hit, you will be protected from one of your worst enemies: mortal wounds)

Scare your enemy: make your guards a truly fearsome threat in close combat, something the opponent will forever try to escape. This works really well with mixed armies (a combo of guards / mystic shield / eternity warden / Sisters of the thorn is devastating. Read the description of the spell of the sisters and smile), but can be done also with seraphon only units (keep your 15 guards in the range of 4 salamanders)


This is not perfect, there will always be something that will laugh at your tries and will just blast away your precious guards (dwarfs flame cannon, just to name one), but you will learn to know those threats, and will deal previously with them (shadowstrike starhost and / or chama skinks)

Omg this brother needs some sisters!
They are awesome!
Defenetly gonna try that guard combo.
Thanks soooo much for the great tips
Will probably eventualy try a warrior horde at one point but with the campaigne at the store that i'm doing now,it wont be allowed :/

Thanks again!

 

[Killer Angel]

Omg this brother needs some sisters!
They are awesome!
Defenetly gonna try that guard combo.
Thanks soooo much for the great tips

The only downside is that if you include Sisters of the Thorn, you must field an "Allegiance order", and guards won't count as battleline.

 

[Bowser]

The only downside is that if you include Sisters of the Thorn, you must field an "Allegiance order", and guards won't count as battleline.

Not necessarily if I am reading this faq correctly, Then you can still take other units and keep the Seraphon allegiance. The sisters just don't benefit from the Seraphon allegiance, which makes no difference as there are no added abilities.

 

[Killer Angel]

Ah, i missed that one.
Yeah, that's even better, the Sisters lose the benefits of the Seraphons' Allegiance, which are... nothing.

So, to sum it up: you can pick seraphon Allegiance, have guards as battleline, have Sisters of the Thorn in your list, and have the abilities of the Order Allegiance. All the goodies, and no downsides.


...a pity it's the same for our opponents.

 

[milman]

Can you stack everything?
Guards have 4+ save
Near hero =3+
Mystic shield =2+
Eternety starhost = 1+?
Or is this a realy stupid comment?
Probably this isn't allowed but just wonna know how far you can take the saverolls

 

[Killer Angel]

It is allowed, and if you are not playing matched play, you can even stack mystic shields!

However, in matched plays, a 1 is always a failure, so there is no difference between an eternal starhost with save 2+ and an ES with mystic shield and save 1+... if not for the fact that sometimes a further bonus is vital (rend lowers your save rolls, or when you have things as Sisters of the Thorn, where each bonus to saves means that the effect of the Shields of Thorn applies with a lower roll)

 

[milman]

It is allowed, and if you are not playing matched play, you can even stack mystic shields!

However, in matched plays, a 1 is always a failure, so there is no difference between an eternal starhost with save 2+ and an ES with mystic shield and save 1+... if not for the fact that sometimes a further bonus is vital (rend lowers your save rolls, or when you have things as Sisters of the Thorn, where each bonus to saves means that the effect of the Shields of Thorn applies with a lower roll)

And how far can you go in matched play with the buffs and the stacking of them?

 

[Killer Angel]

And how far can you go in matched play with the buffs and the stacking of them?

in theory, you could stack everything, 'cause AoS FAQ are still valid. In practice, you will be blocked by the Rule of One: you can cast each turn a particular spell, so no matter how many wizards you have, it's just one Mystic Shield.
But you can still have nice bonuses... guards with Mystic Shield, Eternal Starhost, a nearby hero and in cover, can have a 4+ on saves.

 

[milman]

in theory, you could stack everything, 'cause AoS FAQ are still valid. In practice, you will be blocked by the Rule of One: you can cast each turn a particular spell, so no matter how many wizards you have, it's just one Mystic Shield.
But you can still have nice bonuses... guards with Mystic Shield, Eternal Starhost, a nearby hero and in cover, can have a 4+ on saves.

So if i field one unit of 10-15 guards near a kroak and the kroad casts mystic shield on the guards. All my guards can save on a 2+ in matched play? (Won't be possible to play a eternety starhost in the campaigne i'm in now)