AoS Something you haven't seen before in this lovely forum.. new player building army but please help xD

[Seraphage]

Greetings everyone !

I 'm part of this community, which I feel like calling ours now since I 've spent many hours since this summer reading your interesting opinions about our lovely army or watching the awesome painting everyone has been doing !
Before asking for your opinions let me express how much I like the way everyone is behaving to each other to this forum. It's fantastic. Everyone is kind, helpful and always ready to share his little secrets !
Alright then, sorry for the huge prologue but I really felt like writing it

I plan to work my way to 1000points, then 1500 and hopefully at some point 2000p. Since I love playing with my painted miniatures and I'm a slow painter, 2000 isn't happening any time soon so I am focusing on the 1000p right now.

As usual, I do have the starter box. Due to all the threads I 've read to our forum, I 've also bought a unit of skinks (will buy another one to make a unit of 40) which can be used almost in all kinds of tactics as I 've understood so far and the skink starseer which seems to be one of our most useful heroes ( all of them are awesome but this guy seems like a must have for awesome tacts ! ). I do NOT mind of not really using the starter box.
Propose what army you think it's best and why solely on your opinion and NOT to the units I do possess (although hopefully I 've done proper research and I 've bought the right ones after the starter box )

I think Starhost Shadowhost is awesome but I realised that in 1000p with it you don't really have a "presence" onto the battlefield and needs to be used in combination with other ones to really make the best out of it.

So, question number one : Am I right to think that by going after any of the starhosts I 'm losing the maximum capability of a 1000 army point ? Gul'rok might work but I don't feel like Saurus Knights are fit for me *although I do love the way they look *

Question number two : Seems that a Stegadon is the way to go for a 1000p army over a bastiladon ?
And if I do speculate right, any advices on its use ?

Quest number three : Would a 2nd monster, for example a Carnosaur, fit to a 1000p army without losing it's potential or being left with less core units that you might need ? After all the reading I did to the other thread I 'm gonna skip the Troglodon for now, seems of better use higher up. Also, I wanna say thanks for giving the idea of making an oldblood and a scar-vet from the starting box. A newbie like me would probably never think of it !

Which takes us to question number four : Scar - vet or oldblood to a 1000p army? Or if both can be used, I am not sure I ve understood how and why each time ?

Question number five : chameleon skinks are awesome, that's for sure. Can they fit to 1000p without sacrificing something essential though ? As you don't have that much points left after the heroes and a monster etc?

*Thank GOD for Undo, I mistakenly erased EVERYTHING at this point xD *
That would be all guys ! Sorry for asking that many questions but I really am a noob xD

Thank you so much !
Seraphage

 

[Killer Angel]

First of all, welcome abord, I'm happy you find yourself fine with the community.

So, question number one : Am I right to think that by going after any of the starhosts I 'm losing the maximum capability of a 1000 army point ? Gul'rok might work but I don't feel like Saurus Knights are fit for me *although I do love the way they look *

Question number two : Seems that a Stegadon is the way to go for a 1000p army over a bastiladon ?
And if I do speculate right, any advices on its use ?

Quest number three : Would a 2nd monster, for example a Carnosaur, fit to a 1000p army without losing it's potential or being left with less core units that you might need ? After all the reading I did to the other thread I 'm gonna skip the Troglodon for now, seems of better use higher up. Also, I wanna say thanks for giving the idea of making an oldblood and a scar-vet from the starting box. A newbie like me would probably never think of it !

Which takes us to question number four : Scar - vet or oldblood to a 1000p army? Or if both can be used, I am not sure I ve understood how and why each time ?

Question number five : chameleon skinks are awesome, that's for sure. Can they fit to 1000p without sacrificing something essential though ? As you don't have that much points left after the heroes and a monster etc?

An army should Always have good move, good shooting, good CC and magic support. At 1000 it's hard but we can have it.

Question 1: yes, any starhost costs a certain number of points and this will reduce your total amount. A 100 pts formation in a 1000 pts army will leave you with only 900 pts to spend on units.

Q 2: Steggy is good: fast monster, nice shooting, good combat, can support skinks. A basti is slower but it's decisely heavier on 1000 pts. but it's also more costly. So it depends on the army.

Q 3: a Carno can serve you well (and it would be a nice general); yes, you can squeeze it as 2nd monster in a 1000 pts army, but you will have very few core troops. And you should include (IMO) knights, 'cause it needs some fast unit alongside.

Q 4: all carnosaurs are strong and can do nasty tricks with the bloodroar. the carno of the Oldblood is stronger than its counterpart. What really makes the difference is the command ability of each hero: the scarvet buffs troops, the Oldblood buffs heroes (and himself). You cannot use both the abilities, unless you're fielding also the proper formation, so it's a no at 1000 pts.

Q 5: yes, chamas are great, and in certain armies you can field them even at only 1000 pts.

 

[Killer Angel]

Propose what army you think it's best and why solely on your opinion and NOT to the units I do possess (although hopefully I 've done proper research and I 've bought the right ones after the starter box )

some fun (and somehow effective) lists at 1000 pts:


LIST ONE (seraphon allegiance)

ScarVet on Carno - 260 (general)
Skin Star Priest - 100
Saurus Knights x 5 - 120 (battleline)
Saurus Warriors x 10 - 100 (battleline)
Chama skinks x 5 - 120
Bastiladon - 300

you have 2 blocks: one slow and resilient (saurus and basti) and one fast (carnosaur and knights ). You have magic and the shooting from the basti. The chama skinks do their job.



LIST TWO (order allegiance)

Sunblood (general, w. a command trait and an artefact) - 120
Saurus warriors x 20 (battleline) - 200
Razordons x 3 - 180
Salamanders x 3 -180
handlers x4 - 40
Skinks x 10 - 80 (battleline)
Skink Starseer - 100

you have one main block for melee, supported by a great hero, and one really strong and fast group of shooting dinos, backed up by the Starseer. You also save 40 pts. An alternative could be 30 warriors and a Starpriest instead of the Starseer.



LIST THREE (order allegiance)

Stegadon - 260
Stegadon - 260
Skinks x 10 - 80 (battleline)
Skinks x 10 - 80 (battleline)
Battlemage jade - 100 (general, w. a command trait and an artefact)
Chama skinks - 120 pts

This list is really just for fun: the skinks will take objectives and will screen the 2 stegadons, that will buff each other with the Alpha skink, giving you a nice long range shooting, high move and good CC. The battlemage will heal the steggies. Chama skinks support and take objective.
The idea with this is that you will face CC only if and when you want to.

 

[Seraphage]

Thank you so much @Killer Angel, I really am appreaciating it a lot ! Such a quick and detailed answer ! All 3 seem like lots of fun. I 'm probably going to choose between first two for now but I ll keep in mind the battlemage later on as it seems he can be used within our ranks in multiple ways.

Thanks again

 

[Bowser]

Welcome aboard! A list I like at 1000 points that I think works for an escalation league if that's what you want, would be as follows:

Leaders
Saurus Sunblood (120) General
Skink Starpriest (100)

Units
Saurus Warriors x 20 (200)
- Club
Saurus Warriors x 10 (100)
- Club
Saurus Warriors x 10 (100)
- Club

Behemoths
Bastiladon (300)

War Machines

Batallions
Sunclaw Starhost (80)

Total: 1000/1000
You can't fit a bloodclaw starhost in 1k, but here is a good base, uses the sunclaw instead, the extra bite attacks combined with the double damage from the Starpriest gives this heavy damage output while the bastiladon shoots and tanks. The warriors are good for capturing objectives . Then when you move onto 1500 you add an Oldblood on Carno and a scar-vet on cold one for the bloodclaw. Though I really do like @Killer Angel list 1 is brilliant and just looks fun!

 

[Seraphage]

Thank you very much Bowser !
I ll keep blood claw in mind for later on but I feel like painting as many different models as I can and also play with the most - different - units possible to get the feeling of our army to its fullest

Thanks again for your quick and nice answer

 

[Nielspeterdejong]

What is the current difference between order allegiance and Seraphon allegiance? Did they get something similar like the Sylvaneth that I'm not aware of?

As for a 1000 point army, I like the idea of using the old Skink chief, as a tribute since I used them in my very first match (and destroyed a tournament worthy Chaos army with it), and because they are so lovable!

Skink chief: 60 (general)
Stegadon: 260
Bastiladon: 300
Skink priest: 100
Unit of 20 warriors: 200
Unit of 10 skinks (javelin, so you can have a total of 26 javelin's being thrown in close range with your two dinos).

Cast your skink chief's command on the Stegadon or Bastiladon, and your Stegadon's buff on either of your big dinos. They're pretty fun!

 

[Killer Angel]

What is the current difference between order allegiance and Seraphon allegiance?

Order Allegiance:
our battleline are Skinks and Saurus Warriors; you get the order abilities (a command ability for your general and one or more arfefacts); you can field a mixed army, with units different from Seraphon (but always with the order keyword)

Seraphon Allegiance:
only seraphon units, no Order goodies; battleline are Skinks, Saurus warriors, S. Knights, S. Guards.

 

[SpringStingray]

Order Allegiance:
our battleline are Skinks and Saurus Warriors; you get the order abilities (a command ability for your general and one or more arfefacts); you can field a mixed army, with units different from Seraphon (but always with the order keyword)

Seraphon Allegiance:
only seraphon units, no Order goodies; battleline are Skinks, Saurus warriors, S. Knights, S. Guards.

I don't know if that's correct, the General's Handbook FAQ states:

"You can choose to take the allegiance abilities for the allegiance your army belongs to (SERAPHON), or the allegiance abilities for the Grand Alliance (ORDER) your army belongs to."

Which implies more strategic choices when your army has their own Allegiance Abilities, however the Battle Traits specify that "Armies with the ORDER allegiance...", so a SERAPHON allegiance army won't be affected by the Battle Trait, but you can choose to use the ORDER Artefacts and Command Traits.

 

[Killer Angel]

I don't know if that's correct, the General's Handbook FAQ states:

"You can choose to take the allegiance abilities for the allegiance your army belongs to (SERAPHON), or the allegiance abilities for the Grand Alliance (ORDER) your army belongs to."

Which implies more strategic choices when your army has their own Allegiance Abilities, however the Battle Traits specify that "Armies with the ORDER allegiance...", so a SERAPHON allegiance army won't be affected by the Battle Trait, but you can choose to use the ORDER Artefacts and Command Traits.

All Allegiance Abilities include: Battle Trait, Command Traits, Artefacts (as written at the very beginning of the page of the General's handbook - abilities Allegiance: order, the listed ones are those available to an Order Army, including battle traits, command traits, artefacts)

All the abilities listed in the General's Handbook available to us, are "Order", so you can pick them only when you have the order allegiance.
Sadly, we don't have any allegiace ability for Seraphon (while Sylvaneth do have), so the only advantage we have in picking Seraphon Allegiance is the greater number of battleline units.

 

[SpringStingray]

All Allegiance Abilities include: Battle Trait, Command Traits, Artefacts (as written at the very beginning of the page of the General's handbook - abilities Allegiance: order, the listed ones are those available to an Order Army, including battle traits, command traits, artefacts)

All the abilities listed in the General's Handbook available to us, are "Order", so you can pick them only when you have the order allegiance.
Sadly, we don't have any allegiace ability for Seraphon (while Sylvaneth do have), so the only advantage we have in picking Seraphon Allegiance is the greater number of battleline units.

A SERAPHON Allegiance army is also a member of the Grand Alliance: ORDER. the FAQ doesn't specify that you choose what allegiance your army is, it specifies that you may choose Abilities from either your Allegiance, or your Grand Alliance. It's page 1 of the General's Handbook FAQ and Errata, and I find it to be quite explicit in it's meaning.

 

[Killer Angel]

A SERAPHON Allegiance army is also a member of the Grand Alliance: ORDER. the FAQ doesn't specify that you choose what allegiance your army is, it specifies that you may choose Abilities from either your Allegiance, or your Grand Alliance. It's page 1 of the General's Handbook FAQ and Errata, and I find it to be quite explicit in it's meaning.

yes, it is explicit.
if you army belongs to Seraphon Allegiance, you pick the abilities for that allegiance.
if you army belongs to Grand Order Allegiance, you pick the abilities for that allegiance.

Your army belongs to just one allegiance at time (as clearly stated in the Handbook). You just choose what allegiance you are, taking the relative abilities.

 

[SpringStingray]

I don't know what your deal with listening to what I'm typing is.

Maybe you'll listen to what the guys in charge have said in the past?

Honestly, I've come out of lurking because I know you're wrong and you're spreading misinformation.

EDIT: I have a heap of links to people that echo what I've said in these posts, and a bunch of screencaps from GW Managed Pages that clarify this issue. So if you want more, I can keep going.

 

[Killer Angel]

Honestly, this is the first time I see a sort of official answer to this. And AFAIK the first time someone took the effort in this forum to effectively post something to set the issue. tnx.

Honestly, I've come out of lurking because I know you're wrong and you're spreading misinformation.

and BTW, "spreading misinformation" is a littlle too strong for my tastes... you can choose just one Allegiance (FAQ didn't change that part), and the FAQ imo weren't so clear in telling that you can pick the abilities of the Allegiance you didn't took, so that was my reading on the matter.

Good to know

(it still perplexes me that i can pick the best of both Allegiances. What's the point in deciding to what Allegiance I belong?!?)

 

[SpringStingray]

You were being very stubborn and obviously not taking the time to try to comprehend any of my writing, I needed to use some kind of strong language and that's the best I could come up with

And Seraphon armies are lucky in that we have a wide range of troop choices and playstyles, but there are some Allegiances that have much smaller pools of Warscrolls. The Ironjawz Forums have a lot of posts asking about Allegiance Abilities, since getting locked out of the entire Destruction Unit List to get some 'Ardboy Battlelines isn't very appealing.

 

[Killer Angel]

You were being very stubborn and obviously not taking the time to try to comprehend any of my writing, I needed to use some kind of strong language and that's the best I could come up with

eh...

my stubborness was coming from the fact that, the week after the release of the FAQ, I went to a tournament with a list based on eternal starhost and order Allegiance abilities, and the referee declared my list illegal, for the reasons I mentioned.
So, to me, that reasoning become the sad truth.
In the end, I need to thank you, 'cause finally I have the evidences that it doesn't work that way
(I'm also angry because my list was legal, but that's another issue).