KoW Sallies 2k

[Rapax]

I played around some more on EasyArmy and suddenly I am considering getting a second Clan Lord on Fire Drake.

Ghekkotah Warriors (troop)
Ghekkotah Warriors (troop)
Ghekkotah Warriors (regiment)
Fire Elementals (horde)
Fire Elementals (horde)
Ancients on Rhinosaurs (horde) with Caterpillar
Lekelidon
Lekelidon
Herald on Kaisenor
Mage-priest on Kaisenor with Surge and Inspiring
Clan Lord on Winged Fire Drake with Ensorcelled Armour
Clan Lord on Winged Fire Drake with Medallion of Life

It goes more towards an elite force than my previous build. The theory is that the chaff should keep the enemy from outflanking my relatively narrow main battle line long enough for the Clan Lords to get behind them and cause all sorts of mayhem. Defensive artifacts on both Lords to maximize their mileage.

 

[Lord-Marcus]

Is there any list that is competitive without wings on the Lord's?

 

[Rapax]

Is there any list that is competitive without wings on the Lords?

I don't know. Powerful flying characters with De 6 and/or regeneration/lifeleech are just so good. That's why you see Vampires with Wings of the Honeymaze and all sort of lords on dragons with Ensorcelled armour everywhere.

 

[BAE]

I played around some more on EasyArmy and suddenly I am considering getting a second Clan Lord on Fire Drake.

Ghekkotah Warriors (troop)
Ghekkotah Warriors (troop)
Ghekkotah Warriors (regiment)
Fire Elementals (horde)
Fire Elementals (horde)
Ancients on Rhinosaurs (horde) with Caterpillar
Lekelidon
Lekelidon
Herald on Kaisenor
Mage-priest on Kaisenor with Surge and Inspiring
Clan Lord on Winged Fire Drake with Ensorcelled Armour
Clan Lord on Winged Fire Drake with Medallion of Life

It goes more towards an elite force than my previous build. The theory is that the chaff should keep the enemy from outflanking my relatively narrow main battle line long enough for the Clan Lords to get behind them and cause all sorts of mayhem. Defensive artifacts on both Lords to maximize their mileage.

This could actually be quite a strong list, although it would depend on your opponent. I would mainly be concerned about just how many points have been sunk into the Clan Lords, particularly as you've also sunk a considerable number of points into the Rhinos. I've not tested running two, but from my experience they are more effective as a deterrent than a wound-causing unit. Flying it behind a building and sitting it there causes opponents to do all sorts of things to avoid it landing to their rear. However, there is usually only one building in the right place to do something like this so the other would be in the open and they quickly fall over form a few piercing shots. Also, against any army with surge (so Undead, Empire of Dust, Dwarves, Sallies, Trident Realms or Forces of Nature) flying is next to useless as 99% of the time your only option will be to charge the front of a unit - dropping in behind them or to the side will quickly turn into getting him rear / flank charged (as you wouldn't be able to fly 20" and pivot 180 degrees), at which point you're scuppered as you'll not only be badly damaged, you won't be able to fly.

 

[Itepixcauh]

Is there any list that is competitive without wings on the Lord's?

If you are worried because your miniature doesn't have wings, don't be. Most people don't mind as long as you make clear that it can fly.

 

[Rapax]

I listened to the latest episode of Counter-charge. When talking about his 4th game at Clash of Kings, Tom (the winner) said "Everybody had a dragon lord with defense 6, if they could take a dragon lord."

 

[BAE]

I listened to the latest episode of Counter-charge. When talking about his 4th game at Clash of Kings, Tom (the winner) said "Everybody had a dragon lord with defence 6, if they could take a dragon lord."

It's because they are just such a threat. You can put one on a side of the board and pretty much close it off. If they come too close the lord flies over and the battle's basically over unless they've got a good anti-flier defence like surge or breath with piercing. It's yet another reason why GFEs / FEs are absolutely vital. DE 6+ Lord flies over the top? Turn around and surge - either 24 CS(4) or 54 CS(2) attacks. 10 wounds from the GFE or 13.5 wounds from the FE horde? Don't mind if I do!

 

[Crowsfoot]

It's because they are just such a threat. You can put one on a side of the board and pretty much close it off. If they come too close the lord flies over and the battle's basically over unless they've got a good anti-flier defence like surge or breath with piercing. It's yet another reason why GFEs / FEs are absolutely vital. DE 6+ Lord flies over the top? Turn around and surge - either 24 CS(4) or 54 CS(2) attacks. 10 wounds from the GFE or 13.5 wounds from the FE horde? Don't mind if I do!

Now looking back do you still feel Salamanders are under powered or have your recent exploits changed your view?

 

[BAE]

Now looking back do you still feel Salamanders are under powered or have your recent exploits changed your view?

I still feel they are under powered.

It seems to me that those races considered competitive have army lists that are able to spam slightly 'beardy' setups. For example, Goblins can spam War Trombones (breath with piercing), Elves can legitimately field an entire army of fliers, or have the beardy Heal (8) Green Lady with Def (6) units that are also good in melee, the variety of dwarf guns means all opponent types can be dealt with appropriately at range (i.e. not wasting high Piercing on low Def units) etc.. These aren't just 'good against a particular army', they are independently game-winning. I don't believe that the Salamander list provides the ability to take super-competitive combinations of units in the same manner. I feel Salamanders work well against certain opponents (such as non-shooty, high Def Dwarfs as shown in my CoK debrief), but in a tournament setting you need the ability to win games against all types of army. It's that last bit I'm struggling with. GFE / FEs seem to be the best combination we can get, and hence my current obsession.

In other news, after doing some analysis sheets by unit type (so comparing all armies' standard ranged units against each other, or all armies' ranged war engines etc) it looks like the Brotherhood might actually be the most powerful gun line army in the game... I will definitely be testing this hypothesis at some point.