AoS Combat phase questions - a few in one!

[m0gstar]

Good morning!

I had an interesting combat take place in my game the other night, and am curious to see how you would have played it out. More importantly, this will hopefully help me understand the correct way to get new units into combat that are blocked by units in front of them. This could be applicable for trying to get a character for instance that you are guarding with a unit since they both require two separate rolls.

Age of Sigmar rules state:

Regarding moving : "When you move a model in the movement phase, you may not move within 3" of any enemy model."

Regarding charge: "You may not pick a unit that ran or retreated this turn, nor one that is within 3" of the enemy." The first model that you move must finish within 1/2" of an enemy model."

Regarding pile in: "When you pile in, you may move each model in the unit up to 3" towards the closest enemy model"


Scenario #1: See the Scenario 1 image for a diagram

In this scenario, during my movement phase I move my kroxigors to 3" away from the enemy Dwarves that are in combat with my skinks directly in front of them.

Here is question #1 - According to the official wording, I am under the assumption that the following applies

I cannot charge the dwarves because the skinks are blocking the Kroxigor and they cannot enter the magical 1/2".

So the question is this. Can I move my kroxigor to 3" away from the dwarves (again, assuming that technicalities would make this legal to be exactly at 3") in the movement phase and then during the combat phase pile them in because they are allowed to move up to 3" inches. (Again technicalities because it sounds like up to 3" means 3.0" or less).

Kroxigor range on melee is 2" and therefore would be able to strike over the skinks.

Would this be legal?



Scenario 2: There are a few questions included in Scenario #2. Scenario 2 diagram for visual aid

In my turn, I move my 3 kroxigors to 3" away from the Dwarves, then charge the group of Dwarves with my Stegadon, the first combat, magic etc and kill a bunch of them. Casualties are removed from the side with the Stegadon. The number of casualties removes enough models so that the Stegadon is now more than 3 inches away from the remaining Dwarves. My opponent chooses a different combat to resolve since he isn't worried about my skinks in melee. I elect to use the "Wary Fighter" special rule and move the skinks out of combat the full 8".

Now it is the Dwarf combat to choose. The current situation has the Dwarves at 3" away from the Kroxigors and >3" away from the Stegadon. Two questions come up here:

Because the dwaves "are in combat with the stegadon" do they need to pile into the combats that they are already engaged in? Aka move models towards the stegadon... or...

Are the Dwaves required to pile in towards enemies that they are not technically engaged in combat with because now they are the "closest enemy model".

Scenario #1 covers the remainder of the scenario.

The way that we played the scenario out was that the dwarves piled in toward the stegadon because my Kroxigors were not allowed to enter combat through charge or pile in.

Hopefully you all can shed some light on this

 

[Choombatta]

I will try to answer, and hopefully I am not incorrect and misreading a rule......

Scenario #1:
If the Krox are moving in the Movement Phase, they cannot come within 3" of an enemy model, and as you stated, within 3" includes 3" and less.
So the Krox would have had to stop at, let's say, 3.5". This would have allowed the Krox to make a charge roll.
If somehow, the Krox where moved to within 3" in the Hero Phase, and not in the Movement Phase, then they would not have been able to charge, but would be able to pile in during the Combat Phase.

Scenario #2:
You always have to pile in towards the closest model, no matter if you were in combat with it previously or not.
If the Krox were 3" away, and the Stegadon was 3.5" away, the dwarfs would have had to pile in towards the Krox.

Now, on a side note as was pointed out to me a few days ago on another site......
If the Krox had charged in the Charge Phase, and all of the dwarfs were wiped out by the Stegadon, and the Krox had not been activated yet, they would still get a pile in move, even if the next closest enemy model was 20" away. The only distinction to be able to make a pile in move is being within 3" in the Combat Phase, OR having made a charge move.

 

[m0gstar]

In scenario #1 the charge rules state that they have to end a movement within 1/2 inch of an enemy model. This was physically impossible because of the skinks in front of the Kroxigor unit. Therefore i was hoping to be able to move them to 3" and use the 3" pile in as their move toward the Dwarven unit. Hope this clarifies for future respondents.

Thank you for the reply

 

[Choombatta]

You can still make the charge roll, and if you roll high enough, can move around the side of the skinks or in between them and the stegadon to finish your charge within 1/2 inch of the dwarfs.
You do not have to move towards the closest model in a charge move, nor do you have to remain more than 3 inches away from enemies models during a charge move.

But, as said, you cannot stop at 3" away in the movement phase, you must stop outside of 3".

So, what you should have done, was move the Krox to 3 1/2 inches away in the movement phase. Than make a charge roll in the charge phase. If you roll high enough to move around the skinks or between them and the stegadon and get at least 1 Krox within 1/2 inch of the dwarfs, you can move them and then pile in in the combat phase.

 

[m0gstar]

Thank you for the response - I guess that I'll have to just deploy better so that I do not block my own units from combat! Oops!

 

[Choombatta]

If it helps, had the situation been reversed, and the dwarfs charged into your skinks and stegadon, producing the same diagrams, your Krox would indeed have been able to pile in right behind the skinks, and with their 2" range, been able to attack the dwarfs over the heads of the skinks in front of them.
So your deployment was still a good one, perfect for keeping units unable to charge the krox, while still being able to pile in after their screeners are charged.

 

[Tizianolol]

Hi all..i have a question abou combat phase but not about seraphon.
My brother play wood elves,how work the wardancer dance of loec? I mean when its my turn i use for exemple the dance for 4 attacks, when my opponent attack at his turn i can change dance or i can only when its my hero phase?

 

[m0gstar]

Hi all..i have a question abou combat phase but not about seraphon.
My brother play wood elves,how work the wardancer dance of loec? I mean when its my turn i use for exemple the dance for 4 attacks, when my opponent attack at his turn i can change dance or i can only when its my hero phase?

The Wardancer warscroll states: Shadow Dance of Loec: At the start of your hero phase, this unit can perform one of the shadow dances of Loec. The same dance cannot be performed by the same unit in consecutive battle rounds, and the effects of each dance last until your next hero phase:

So for these rules, during YOUR hero phase, you will select a dance (these rules state that the dance must be changed each turn) if you picked the Storm of Blades dance (extra attack) as you mentioned in your post, then you will have that dance for the remainder of your turn (your combat phase) and for your opponent's turn (their combat phase). Then you must change the dance during your next hero phase.

 

[Tizianolol]

Ok thx a lot

 

[Tizianolol]

I have another question about a game played this morning..I have doubts about the Damage counting of the Stream of Fire (salamanders)
For exemple: if i do 1 wound it will became d6 but its d6 for 1 single model or for all? Like i would have done 6 wounds without damage d6...
I had 4 salamanders, 4 attacks each, 1 wound total. Then i did 4 with the Damage d6.... I remove 4 enemies model or its 4 wound to a single one? thx

 

[Crowsfoot]

I have another question about a game played this morning..I have doubts about the Damage counting of the Stream of Fire (salamanders)
For exemple: if i do 1 wound it will became d6 but its d6 for 1 single model or for all? Like i would have done 6 wounds without damage d6...
I had 4 salamanders, 4 attacks each, 1 wound total. Then i did 4 with the Damage d6.... I remove 4 enemies model or its 4 wound to a single one? thx

Depends on what your attacking, if it is a unit of say 10 Elves the d6, 4 wounds would affect the unit so remove 4 if they fail their save roll, if you where attacking a character on it's own the extra wounds caused would be lost.

Wounds carry over if models are within range of each other.

 

[Tizianolol]

Another question...about the piling rule...
Can a units pile in more directions?
For example:

B. A. B.

Can my unit A pile with some models on left B and some on right B at the same time? Or i can pile only on one way? Thx

 

[Bowser]

They pile in to the closest enemy model, so if that works out that way then yes.

 

[Tizianolol]

Ok ty..if unit that pile into 2 other units take wounds..I still can chose the model that I have to remove I think right?

 

[Bowser]

That choice is still yours.