Discussion Lets talk about the Lizardmen version of Lord Of The Flies

[Otzi'mandias]

I'm sure I read in one of the older army books about an island of just skinks, where the slann died off for some reason. Apparently the skinks all went loco, but I would be extremely interested to hear your thoughts on it. How would their society work for that brief period of time between freedom and insanity? Did that actually happen, or is it just Slann gossip and rumour? Are skinks capable of running a civilised temple-city without the control and domination of the slann? What will happen to them in the end? Would it be enough to attract the attention of an Old One, if they were still around? Could they get a trade agreement with humans/elves/etc? Without the slann around, would they feel free or more constrained?

 

[Slanputin]

I think you're referring to the Dragon Isles (analogue to Sri Lanka.)

If you're asking questions for your own fluff, feel free to use whatever route you want. It was the subject of a brief note in the rulebooks. There's already been two fluff pieces on the forum dealing with them: one dressed them as pirates raiding human sailors (yay!) and the other looked at the bloody beginning to their isolation (boo!) .

 

[Bowser]

I likethe idea, I think it's more likely that stranded in an island with a dead slann, one that presumably does not come back to keep the corpse casting spells, the skinks would be like the protagonists of the book, where as the saurus who are bigger meaner and more savage would be like the antagonists.

 

[Otzi'mandias]

@Bowser, are you suggesting conflict between the saurus and the skinks? That would be an extremely interesting idea. Off the top of my head I can't think of any reason for it to begin, though. What did you have in mind?

 

[Bowser]

The same reason madness begins in the skinks in the other story. No slann, no temple cities, let's say the high priest dies on the voyage, or is accidentally killed on the island. So the skinks trying to keep things cool and orderly. No magic, or not enough to be a threat. The saurus get hungry, don't like the way the skinks run things. They want to argue about who should hunt, instead of hunt. You then get a scar vet or Old one who, as the biggest and the strongest decides Marshall law is needed. The skinks try to stand up to them, only to be slaughtered or outcast. The quick and the clever get away, and are now in hiding. Piggy the skink with the glasses that can start fire is sought after. Mix all of that with a rotting giant magic toad corpse as the island's god, let the madness take over. Piggy broke his glasses. Death and Mayhem ensue.

 

[Otzi'mandias]

Ok. I just always saw the saurus as being the more stabilising element, rather than the outright villains - although now you mention it, a saurus probably wouldn't listen to a weak little skink. They would separate into two groups, and then one of them would decide that there wasn't enough food on the Dragon Isles for them both. Cue war.

Although, it is very interesting to think that the skinks would win the gang war.

 

[Slanputin]

I imagine Lizardmen society would remain somewhat stable without a Slann, just not progressive. Skinks have the most municipal responsibility and are relentlessly bureaucratic in the running of the temple-cities when the Slann aren't available for contact: and the cities surviving the cataclysm have been maintained even whilst the Slann remain distant or their numbers decrease.

The undoing may be the trend in Skinks turning to a more tribalistic worship of the Old Ones. I can't remember where, but I'm sure in the 8th edition it mentions how without direct leadership from the Slann the Skinks developed a religion about the Old Ones which favoured sacrifices, etc. A Lizardmen society without any influence from Slann leadership, either from within the city or other nearby cities, could devolve into a more base approach to worship which may dictate the direction of their civilisation.

I positioned the Saurus as the villains in "A Thousand Crimson Crosses" precisely because they're the stabalising element - they are paragons of order, and without a Slann to guide them they re-organise society to one which matches their militaristic ideal. If the balance of power favours Saurus rulership then I can see a Lizardmen society becoming akin to a military junta.

 

[Bowser]

I don’t think they would win, but survive until help came. Well most of them anyway.

 

[Otzi'mandias]

I imagine Lizardmen society would remain somewhat stable without a Slann, just not progressive. Skinks have the most municipal responsibility and are relentlessly bureaucratic in the running of the temple-cities when the Slann aren't available for contact: and the cities surviving the cataclysm have been maintained even whilst the Slann remain distant or their numbers decrease.

The undoing may be the trend in Skinks turning to a more tribalistic worship of the Old Ones. I can't remember where, but I'm sure in the 8th edition it mentions how without direct leadership from the Slann the Skinks developed a religion about the Old Ones which favoured sacrifices, etc. A Lizardmen society without any influence from Slann leadership, either from within the city or other nearby cities, could devolve into a more base approach to worship which may dictate the direction of their civilisation.

I positioned the Saurus as the villains in "A Thousand Crimson Crosses" precisely because they're the stabalising element - they are paragons of order, and without a Slann to guide them they re-organise society to one which matches their militaristic ideal. If the balance of power favours Saurus rulership then I can see a Lizardmen society becoming akin to a military junta.

Yeah, Saurus rely on chains of command and a clear hierarchy. Sit them at a table with a bunch of human diplomats and ask what they all thought about a peace treaty, they would have no clue what to do.

@Bowser, the skinks do somehow win, as a couple of reports from the Slann say that no attempt has been made to join them back into Lustrian or Southland temple-cities due to how insane and unpredictable they are. And would you try to help them if you were there? Somehow the Saurus get killed off first.

 

[Bowser]

Ah, I am not familiar with the actual fluff, I am literally paralleling Lord of the flies here. Well from what I remember of it...
I think for canon fluff, if the slann felt they couldn't be rehabilitated they would consider them dangerous and tainted by chaos. They mayblet them live out their years untouched. But then again, a campaign to kill them may be initiated, which would make for an interesting battle for your own fluff. Depending on how you write them.

 

[Otzi'mandias]

The conversation between the border security guys and a translator would be quite amusing, at least.
"Why do you want us to let you into our seas?"
"Well, we had an illegal colony in here, but their holy leader died and so they decided to kill each other. We've decided to sail in here and kill them, before our presence gets discovered and you decide to declare war on us because our insane skinks annoy you by killing some of your peasants,"
"Uh, what?"

 

[Bowser]

Hilarity ensues. Or maybe the stranded crazy ones wait for the war party to leave the boat, then sneak on board and become pirates. Leaving another crew to go insane. This ensuring more crew, and possibly more ships in the future. Self sustaining pirate operation rife with comedy gold.

 

[Otzi'mandias]

It made me smile just thinking how a slann would react to being told his boat got stolen and he was stranded.
True, he'd probably just magic another one into existence, but the image of a slann going "What?" at a poor little skink is just too good.

 

[Bowser]

Oh that's priceless! This kind of story needs to get written! For comedy purposes of course!

 

[Warden]

I'm sure I read in one of the older army books about an island of just skinks, where the slann died off for some reason. Apparently the skinks all went loco, but I would be extremely interested to hear your thoughts on it. How would their society work for that brief period of time between freedom and insanity? Did that actually happen, or is it just Slann gossip and rumour? Are skinks capable of running a civilised temple-city without the control and domination of the slann? What will happen to them in the end? Would it be enough to attract the attention of an Old One, if they were still around? Could they get a trade agreement with humans/elves/etc? Without the slann around, would they feel free or more constrained?

I think you're referring to the Dragon Isles (analogue to Sri Lanka.)

If you're asking questions for your own fluff, feel free to use whatever route you want. It was the subject of a brief note in the rulebooks. There's already been two fluff pieces on the forum dealing with them: one dressed them as pirates raiding human sailors (yay!) and the other looked at the bloody beginning to their isolation (boo!) .

I imagine Lizardmen society would remain somewhat stable without a Slann, just not progressive. Skinks have the most municipal responsibility and are relentlessly bureaucratic in the running of the temple-cities when the Slann aren't available for contact: and the cities surviving the cataclysm have been maintained even whilst the Slann remain distant or their numbers decrease.

The undoing may be the trend in Skinks turning to a more tribalistic worship of the Old Ones. I can't remember where, but I'm sure in the 8th edition it mentions how without direct leadership from the Slann the Skinks developed a religion about the Old Ones which favoured sacrifices, etc. A Lizardmen society without any influence from Slann leadership, either from within the city or other nearby cities, could devolve into a more base approach to worship which may dictate the direction of their civilisation.

I positioned the Saurus as the villains in "A Thousand Crimson Crosses" precisely because they're the stabalising element - they are paragons of order, and without a Slann to guide them they re-organise society to one which matches their militaristic ideal. If the balance of power favours Saurus rulership then I can see a Lizardmen society becoming akin to a military junta.

I do like the story about the pirate lizardmen of course (thanks for the shout out!) AND now I have a lot more material to read...

It was hinted in the army books that the Lizardmen of the Dragon Isles had reverted back to a more "barbaric" state, but that might just be in comparison to the ordered society of Lustria.

Slightly off topic, but I am currently working on a sequel to my pirates piece concerning the Dragon Isles where the society of the Isles has fragmented due to warring Lizardmen factions, similar to the daimyo conflicts of Japan during the Sengoku period. For those of you who have every played Shogun 2 Total war you might get the idea... basically the saurus are fighting for control to fill up the vacuum left by the lost Slann, and the skink priests at the central Temple City are mostly figureheads. More to follow.

 

[Otzi'mandias]

I do like the story about the pirate lizardmen of course (thanks for the shout out!) AND now I have a lot more material to read...

It was hinted in the army books that the Lizardmen of the Dragon Isles had reverted back to a more "barbaric" state, but that might just be in comparison to the ordered society of Lustria.

Slightly off topic, but I am currently working on a sequel to my pirates piece concerning the Dragon Isles where the society of the Isles has fragmented due to warring Lizardmen factions, similar to the daimyo conflicts of Japan during the Sengoku period. For those of you who have every played Shogun 2 Total war you might get the idea... basically the saurus are fighting for control to fill up the vacuum left by the lost Slann, and the skink priests at the central Temple City are mostly figureheads. More to follow.

Ooh, leave us a link to it please

 

[Hyperborean]

Hi king in regards to leadership in such a situation say one of the skinks was a skink priest? Would aSaurus you think be more inclined to follow one instead of a regular skink?

 

[Slanputin]

AND now I have a lot more material to read...

I should say it's "A Thousand Crimson Crosses" that's based on the Dragon Isles; the thread itself is a compendium of short stories.

Anyway shameless self-advertisement aside.

Hi king in regards to leadership in such a situation say one of the skinks was a skink priest? Would aSaurus you think be more inclined to follow one instead of a regular skink?

I was thinking about this myself. Skink High Priests seem to be the de faqto leader in the absence of the Slann, being municipal and spiritual leaders. Plus, in the 8th ed crunch they were the ones who could control the Saurus primal fury rule.

That being said, the Saurus tend to have the stronger leadership roles.

 

[Bowser]

I think the saurus might follow a particularly viscious skink chief. One of the big heart ripping ones. If he is faster than they are strong and can get the blade in the soft spot be would probably enjoy a short lived stint in the captain's seat. Until age or a mistake took him out.

basically the saurus are fighting for control to fill up the vacuum left by the lost Slann, and the skink priests at the central Temple City are mostly figureheads.

Amazing concept!
The Lizardmen samurai?
Epic adventure.

I can see it now, a shamed lone Saurus walking the street. His Oldblood Master died. He lived. A Ronin. Almost the lowest type of Lizardman. Bodyguard for hire. Protecting against ninja skinks, while the puppet Emporer attempts a play for power.
History can be so intriguing!

 

[Slanputin]

I can see it now, a shamed lone Saurus walking the street. His Oldblood Master died. He lived. A Ronin. Almost the lowest type of Lizardman. Bodyguard for hire. Protecting against ninja skinks, while the puppet Emporer attempts a play for power.

get writing