AoS Mini tournament... How do I deal with Nagash/Archaon?

[Tip4Tap]

Hey everyone.

At my local club we have a mini doubles tournament coming up on the 25th of March. It's 30 wounds per player (so 60 per team) and the teams are randomly selected via lucky draw from a hat. I have spoken with everyone who's attending and it seems three guys and fielding only two-three models with one of them either being Nagash or Archaon.

Having read through both Nagash's and Archaon's rules I don't have a clue how I'd kill them with only 30 wounds from me and 30 wounds from a randomly selected team mate.

I am very new to Age of Sigmar and this will be my first mini tournament. I have no idea what to bring for only 30 wounds and even less of a clue as to what I should field to face off against potentially Nagash and Archaon.

Any ideas or help you guys could offer would be massively appreciated.

 

[Bainbow]

Hey everyone.

At my local club we have a mini doubles tournament coming up on the 25th of March. It's 30 wounds per player (so 60 per team) and the teams are randomly selected via lucky draw from a hat. I have spoken with everyone who's attending and it seems three guys and fielding only two-three models with one of them either being Nagash or Archaon.

Having read through both Nagash's and Archaon's rules I don't have a clue how I'd kill them with only 30 wounds from me and 30 wounds from a randomly selected team mate.

I am very new to Age of Sigmar and this will be my first mini tournament. I have no idea what to bring for only 30 wounds and even less of a clue as to what I should field to face off against potentially Nagash and Archaon.

Any ideas or help you guys could offer would be massively appreciated.

A Bastiladon with a Searing Beam, plus a Starseer to give Curse of Fates to improve the number of hits by one as well as rerolls for low rolls when randomising the damage you did, plus an Astriloth Bearer to get rerolls To Hit to make those 4+ rolls easier. Especially good for Archaon as he has the Daemon keyword which makes you do 3 Damage with the beam, a really good shot can bring him down to 5 Wounds in one turn. And it's all for 19 Wounds, giving you 11 more to play with. Spending the rest on some nice tanky Guard can allow you to win just through shooting with the Beam while the Guard defend.

 

[Bowser]

A Bastiladon with a Searing Beam, plus a Starseer to give Curse of Fates to improve the number of hits by one as well as rerolls for low rolls when randomising the damage you did, plus an Astriloth Bearer to get rerolls To Hit to make those 4+ rolls easier. Especially good for Archaon as he has the Daemon keyword which makes you do 3 Damage with the beam, a really good shot can bring him down to 5 Wounds in one turn. And it's all for 19 Wounds, giving you 11 more to play with. Spending the rest on some nice tanky Guard can allow you to win just through shooting with the Beam while the Guard defend.

This was pretty well what I was going to say only I was going with chameleons instead of guard for the reamining points. But guard actually makes more sense.

 

[Crowsfoot]

A Bastiladon with a Searing Beam, plus a Starseer to give Curse of Fates to improve the number of hits by one as well as rerolls for low rolls when randomising the damage you did, plus an Astriloth Bearer to get rerolls To Hit to make those 4+ rolls easier. Especially good for Archaon as he has the Daemon keyword which makes you do 3 Damage with the beam, a really good shot can bring him down to 5 Wounds in one turn. And it's all for 19 Wounds, giving you 11 more to play with. Spending the rest on some nice tanky Guard can allow you to win just through shooting with the Beam while the Guard defend.

would 4 wound on a skink priest out of the 11 be a benefit, another mystic shield but also a target to stop the opponent going for the bassy?

 

[Bowser]

skink priest out of the 11 be a benefit, another mystic shield but also a target to stop the opponent going for the bassy?

I think that's a really good idea. Keeping in mind he will have other opponents this will pay off with people not playing monster only.

 

[dwarfepic]

what about summoning rules. if there are no limits on them, nagash will be horrific. he nay be able to summon twice your army size in 2-3 turns. also keep in mind that you will have a team mate who may have archaon/nagash..

 

[Bainbow]

would 4 wound on a skink priest out of the 11 be a benefit, another mystic shield but also a target to stop the opponent going for the bassy?

I was thinking of saying that you could add a Starpriest in thereand lower it to 7 Guard, it shouldn't make too much of a difference. The extra Mystic Shield would be valuable.
I say yeah, go for it.

 

[Tip4Tap]

what about summoning rules. if there are no limits on them, nagash will be horrific. he nay be able to summon twice your army size in 2-3 turns. also keep in mind that you will have a team mate who may have archaon/nagash..

The rules on summoning are this: if you have it in your collection you can summon it. The guys playing Nagash have huge undead collections. While I have a 50 wound army total.

I think that's a really good idea. Keeping in mind he will have other opponents this will pay off with people not playing monster only.

The other guys are bringing Orges, Wood elves, Dwarfs, brets, deamons, warriors of Chaos and high/dark elves.

 

[Tip4Tap]

A Bastiladon with a Searing Beam, plus a Starseer to give Curse of Fates to improve the number of hits by one as well as rerolls for low rolls when randomising the damage you did, plus an Astriloth Bearer to get rerolls To Hit to make those 4+ rolls easier. Especially good for Archaon as he has the Daemon keyword which makes you do 3 Damage with the beam, a really good shot can bring him down to 5 Wounds in one turn. And it's all for 19 Wounds, giving you 11 more to play with. Spending the rest on some nice tanky Guard can allow you to win just through shooting with the Beam while the Guard defend.

This sounds pretty solid to me. I might give this a try.

would 4 wound on a skink priest out of the 11 be a benefit, another mystic shield but also a target to stop the opponent going for the bassy?

I also like the sound of an additional priest. I've got a 50 wound game coming up on Saturday so I might give this a try then.

 

[dwarfepic]

The rules on summoning are this: if you have it in your collection you can summon it. The guys playing Nagash have huge undead collections. While I have a 50 wound army total.

hmmm. if I were you I would try and use magic to your advantage. use an astrolith to get bonuses to casting and try to get off as many mortal wounds as possible. then a bastilidon. unkilliable. I have never seen one die. as for temple guard, they are great in defence but nagash will deal a lot of mortal wounds. hopefully your opponent will be too pre-occupied with summoning to cast mortal wound spells. if there are no mortal wounds you should do fine. and Archaon... well, he is not very mobile if you drop a few mortal wounds on him. the secret to killing big characters is mortal wounds, a thing the seraphon excel at dealing. if you can use magic to your advantage and remember that unbinding only has an eighteen inch range then kroak will excel.

 

[Killer Angel]

then a bastilidon. unkilliable. I have never seen one die.

You can surely kill it. But it requires some efforts, and lot of mortal wounds... things that (for example) can easily be obtained by Tzeentch or Forest Goblins armies... but i don't see them in that list.

 

[dwarfepic]

You can surely kill it. But it requires some efforts, and lot of mortal wounds... things that (for example) can easily be obtained by Tzeentch or Forest Goblins armies... but i don't see them in that list.

well, they can die, but a 4+ against mortal wounds is very strong. but not saying they cannot die. just hard to kill. very hard. have used on against forest gobber spider riders. they dropped mine to 3 wounds! in this tournament I think they will excel as not many people will be able to inflict that many mortals to kill it with only thirty wounds (quickly at least).

 

[Bainbow]

This sounds pretty solid to me. I might give this a try.

I also like the sound of an additional priest. I've got a 50 wound game coming up on Saturday so I might give this a try then.

Remember, tall models like Archaon and Nagash just mean that you can see them over units, making Line of Sight much easier to get for your Beam.
And make sure it's the Starpriest rather than the regular Priest, you want it for its Mystic Shield.

 

[Tip4Tap]

Does mystic shield stack? For example Archaon has a 3+ save. With mystic shield that becomes a 2+ right? So if he casts it on himself (if thats allowed) he gets 2+ save, a chaos sorcerer then cast it on him for a 1+ save?

Also in the rules it says that you can add 1 to all save rolls, therefore, does mystic shield affect Archaons RuneShield?

 

[Killer Angel]

well, they can die, but a 4+ against mortal wounds is very strong.

Sure it is. Especially if supported by a Starseer...

For example Archaon has a 3+ save. With mystic shield that becomes a 2+ right? So if he casts it on himself (if thats allowed) he gets 2+ save, a chaos sorcerer then cast it on him for a 1+ save?
Also in the rules it says that you can add 1 to all save rolls, therefore, does mystic shield affect Archaons RuneShield?

yes, mystic shield brings Archaon's save at 2+
no, 2 castings of mystic shield don't stack on the same target
no, RuneShield is not listed as a save, it's an ability that let Archaon ignore a wound on a roll of 5-6. It's similar to the Bastiladon's Impervious defence.

 

[Rekmeister]

Ban them. Everyone here has great ideas on how a Seraphon army could counter Nagash/Archaon with 30 wounds of models. Not every army has that sort of options available to it. Similarly, don't assume players will be building their forces to counter one model. It's not ridiculous to ask two people not to use the two god-tier models in the game.

 

[Bracnos]

Ban them. Everyone here has great ideas on how a Seraphon army could counter Nagash/Archaon with 30 wounds of models. Not every army has that sort of options available to it. Similarly, don't assume players will be building their forces to counter one model. It's not ridiculous to ask two people not to use the two god-tier models in the game.

I can understand why some people would feel this way. As I don't have these models myself, but I feels like your asking the kid who can play a sport really well and is stronger than you not to play because you can run as fast or hit ad hard.

STRATEGY my friends that will win 80 percent of the time. But I can understand if you can't have fun in a game if the other players are really strong...to me it feels wrong to ask pepole to please not use that awesome model you spent so much time and money on just because it makes it harder for me to win...

 

[Rekmeister]

I wanna preface this by stating I just re-read OP's post and I didn't realize that he is going to be a player at this event, not a host, so the following post about banning models at tournaments is purely for the sake of discussion, hope this isn't a bad case of hijacking xoxo

I can understand why some people would feel this way. As I don't have these models myself, but I feels like your asking the kid who can play a sport really well and is stronger than you not to play because you can run as fast or hit ad hard.

STRATEGY my friends that will win 80 percent of the time. But I can understand if you can't have fun in a game if the other players are really strong

You equate strength to tactical skill, which I agree with 100%. However, taking a god tier model that can table armies on their own with relatively few weaknesses or abuse-able loopholes is not tactical skill; whoever does that at 30 wounds is the weaker player who doesn't want to play the game with the stronger player - the Archaon player is taking the route to be less tactical, and rely on a big beatstick instead of the nuances of the game. There is an argument to be made for the fact that you have 60 wounds total to throw at him, but that's while also focusing on the rest of the Nagash players army, and that of his tag team partners. Banning things at tournaments always strikes a sour note, I know this from first hand experience hosting Lord of The Rings SBG events; and every time I've backed down from doing it, come the actual tournament, guess what public opinion is after someone turns up with four Nazgul on fell beast? There is nothing wrong with banning the right things at the right size - especially if you are trying to strike a thematic tone with your event, such as this doubles affair. Of course sometimes a stupid ban is put in place, and a ban should never extend past one or two giant point sinks, but if it is clear said models just don't belong at a certain level, banning them from the off-set is fine.

Blame should go on the guys bringing Archaon and Nagash to 30 wound events; not myself or others who agree with banning the right big models. Just because a model costs a lot and takes a long time to put together and paint does not make it valid to use at every level of play.

 

[Bracnos]

You equate strength to tactical skill, which I agree with 100%. However, taking a god tier model that can table armies on their own with relatively few weaknesses or abuse-able loopholes is not tactical skill; whoever does that at 30 wounds is the weaker player who doesn't want to play the game with the stronger player - the Archaon player is taking the route to be less tactical, and rely on a big beatstick instead of the nuances of the game. There is an argument to be made for the fact that you have 60 wounds total to throw at him, but that's while also focusing on the rest of the Nagash players army, and that of his tag team partners. Banning things at tournaments always strikes a sour note, I know this from first hand experience hosting Lord of The Rings SBG events; and every time I've backed down from doing it, come the actual tournament, guess what public opinion is after someone turns up with four Nazgul on fell beast? There is nothing wrong with banning the right things at the right size - especially if you are trying to strike a thematic tone with your event, such as this doubles affair. Of course sometimes a stupid ban is put in place, and a ban should never extend past one or two giant point sinks, but if it is clear said models just don't belong at a certain level, banning them from the off-set is fine.

Blame should go on the guys bringing Archaon and Nagash to 30 wound events; not myself or others who agree with banning the right big models. Just because a model costs a lot and takes a long time to put together and paint does not make it valid to use at every level of play.

Oh i see what you mean there is a difference between having 1 god tier model on the table that is relatively easy to handle but taking 5 or more would be cheep.
Like if i brought 5 pro players to a pickup game against a group of 3rd graders

But correct me if im interpreting the rules wrong, If your up against Nagash player and that is the only model that player placed. Even is Nagash summoned 500 undead on its turn wont the opposing player only have to kill two or three models to win even if your army is killed??

 

[Bowser]

Well Nagash and Archaon are 16 and 20 wounds respectively so they would have more models than just that to start. It will take tactics for sure, and making the most of the team mate's army. Know your enemy and know your ally and their armies.