AoS how to win consistantly win in AoS

[Bainbow]

Thats the best way to go about doing it, because although I said it can very easily be a pay to win game, if you rock up with a WAAC 2000wound army no one will want to play you if thats what matters to you. So in that sense I've come to realise the game can quite easily police itself within each gaming community.

We actually have some "police" in our gaming circle for AoS. If somebody rocks up and starts acting dead scummy like that, we tell them that they're only allowed to play games against these police. Worth noting, that includes a guy who had well over 30,000 points worth of undead models including Nagash back in 8th, with his basic unit being 200 models strong. I say "well over 30k" because he just stopped counting when he hit that much. People tend to behave themselves when faced with that.

 

[StealthKnightSteg]

come with 2000 wounds against my 200 wounds, I get Sudden Death option kill that character with some cannons -> win, you loose.
Only rule I see, "don't become a tacky sore piece of player"

 

[Bainbow]

come with 2000 wounds against my 200 wounds, I get Sudden Death option kill that character with some cannons -> win, you loose.
Only rule I see, "don't become a tacky sore piece of player"

It's not so easy against clever players. Call an Assassinate on me? Okay, try to kill Oxyotl. Who is now in hiding and untargetable. Good luck. Need to take out a specific unit, okay then, have to get through a wall of defensive Morghasts first. Last for four more turns? Sure, bring in the blitzkrieg and assassins.

 

[StealthKnightSteg]

yeah but cleaver players (and the ones not being tacky) don't need 2000 wounds

 

[Gorgerak]

Reading this thread, it kind of seems like people are arguing (maybe that's too strong-a-term) over something that we all fundamentally agree on...

...GW haven't been able to write a "non-abusable" rules set.

But if they had we wouldn't have any breathing room to build our own armies. Pay to Win is a necessary evil (and i use the term evil because personally I don't like it, but recognise its validity) and its here to stay. Ignore or embrace at your own discretion.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

come with 2000 wounds against my 200 wounds, I get Sudden Death option kill that character with some cannons -> win, you loose.
Only rule I see, "don't become a tacky sore piece of player"

It's not so easy against clever players. Call an Assassinate on me? Okay, try to kill Oxyotl. Who is now in hiding and untargetable. Good luck. Need to take out a specific unit, okay then, have to get through a wall of defensive Morghasts first. Last for four more turns? Sure, bring in the blitzkrieg and assassins.

Exactly... sudden death does not compensate for extremely unbalanced sides.

 

[Bainbow]

Exactly... sudden death does not compensate for extremely unbalanced sides.

What's needed is players who adhere to the honour system, and if possible, some baller players who play nice but will deliver no holds barred beatdowns against people who try to play scummy.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

What's needed is players who adhere to the honour system, and if possible, some baller players who play nice but will deliver no holds barred beatdowns against people who try to play scummy.

Can't argue with that!

 

[Kultak]

Don't get me wrong I play to win, however if I noticed that a player is always being a "douche" about it I won't play him. Win the game because you are an awesome tactician not because you put so many models on the table that it will be impossible for the little guy to achieve success.

I don't argue that is a perfect system (we all know is not) however it is possible. I was successful at winning against Chaos Warriors (38 models) with my Beastmen (17 models) and we are both experienced players. Is not like he was a newbie and didn't know what he was doing.

 

[ChubbSkink]

On the pay-to-win issue. It's present in every miniatures game out there. To say it doesn't is to ignore that this is a business and not charity.

 

[protector]

To be honest, if somebody can afford the money to bring 2000 wounds then I'd gladly play them just for the laugh of the size difference. And to have a fun challenge to see how many of them I can take down with me, I bet I can wipe out at least half of them if I've got favourable terrain conditions.

I would gladly give you the opportunity, but I don't think you would make it past turn 2, although it would make for a fun afternoon to see just how many wounds you could take off me with a "doomed to fail" last man standing fight. But after I field 4 thundertusks and 4 bastilodons (tide of snakes) that alone will account for probably 48 mortal wounds per round of shooting, at least until you can get close enough to take some wounds off my thundertusks, and that would mean you are within range of my 5 mangler squigs.

Someone like me just can't separate fun from competitive, so although I love the idea of AoS I very much need boundaries on army building or some comp system. If it is just guys having fun and no one really cares about winning or losing then this game is amazing, and I will still probably play it every now and again. But I don't see the ability for this game to scale to anything outside of friends playing, you can't do a tournament with these rules, otherwise people like me can show up with upwards of 6,000 wounds worth of models (That undead 30k guy wouldn't come close to me either unless he had another 4 armies of the same size) and ruin it. I don't want to be a scummy player but I don't know how to have fun playing a game unless I'm seriously trying to win, otherwise it's the same as me playing with my 2yr old son and I'm just handicapping myself as much as needed to give the other person a good time and not have fun personally.

I am the minority though, and from what I can see this game is taking off and it will continue to be a success, the nay-sayers just don't like it because a) they don't like change, or b) they are like me and desire competitive play. Of course we can comp it ourselves but I don't like house rules, I can create my own game system if I wanted to make up rules.

 

[Bainbow]

I would gladly give you the opportunity, but I don't think you would make it past turn 2, although it would make for a fun afternoon to see just how many wounds you could take off me with a "doomed to fail" last man standing fight. But after I field 4 thundertusks and 4 bastilodons (tide of snakes) that alone will account for probably 48 mortal wounds per round of shooting, at least until you can get close enough to take some wounds off my thundertusks, and that would mean you are within range of my 5 mangler squigs.

Someone like me just can't separate fun from competitive, so although I love the idea of AoS I very much need boundaries on army building or some comp system. If it is just guys having fun and no one really cares about winning or losing then this game is amazing, and I will still probably play it every now and again. But I don't see the ability for this game to scale to anything outside of friends playing, you can't do a tournament with these rules, otherwise people like me can show up with upwards of 6,000 wounds worth of models (That undead 30k guy wouldn't come close to me either unless he had another 4 armies of the same size) and ruin it. I don't want to be a scummy player but I don't know how to have fun playing a game unless I'm seriously trying to win, otherwise it's the same as me playing with my 2yr old son and I'm just handicapping myself as much as needed to give the other person a good time and not have fun personally.

I am the minority though, and from what I can see this game is taking off and it will continue to be a success, the nay-sayers just don't like it because a) they don't like change, or b) they are like me and desire competitive play. Of course we can comp it ourselves but I don't like house rules, I can create my own game system if I wanted to make up rules.

Breaking it to you, but it's perfectly easy to be competitive, all you need to do is use self-imposed restrictions.
And if you're looking for a challenge against weaker players, you can always let them field more than you. I'm always up for fighting more wounds than I have because it gives me a challenge. Hell, yesterday I had the first ever game to actually challenge my Seraphon have ever had as O've effortlessly curbstomped everyone else so badly that I had to start a second, non-Seraph army just so people can enjoy playing me again (and it was against Beastmen of all armies, BEASTMEN! They're not only playable now, they're amazing.) But even that had me outnumbered by 25 wounds.
So don't limit yourself, buff your opponent and then try to bear them.

 

[protector]

Breaking it to you, but it's perfectly easy to be competitive, all you need to do is use self-imposed restrictions.

Actually there is a difference between a challenge and being competitive, it is impossible for the NFL Patriots to play a competitive game of football against a high school team, they can reduce the number of players or tie their left arms behind their backs for a challenging game but then it would not be according to the rules of football. I cannot play a competitive game of AoS, I can play a challenging game as long as I change the rules of the game, but to truly be competitive then that means I try my hardest to win which is not purposely handicapping myself by adding arbitrary rules. This does not mean the game is not fun when I do add rules to limit myself, just that personally playing all out competitively is my favorite, I love to pit everything I have against my enemy no holds barred and when I claw my way to victory it tastes the sweetest. Wrestling with a child may be a challenge if you do not use arms or your left leg, but being able to still pin the child does not bring about the feeling of victory (It is still though an entirely worthwhile thing I think all Dads should do)

You sound like the perfect opponent with a keen interest in tactics, and if we had similar collections or if there was an official comp system it would probably be the highlight of my week to play against you. And I do recognize that my competitive streak is not a character strength most of the time, but it is still a part of what makes me tic. For that reason I have stopped playing in tournaments and mainly play my brother, he has been the only player to actually beat me in a game of warhammer 5th-8th edition and easily of 300 games, and the first time I lost to him was a glorious moment because I held nothing back in army composition or play style.

I'm probably rambling, for anyone else reading this thread Bainbow is right and AoS can provide an immense amount of fun and challenging games, and if you really need a competitive game find someone with a similar collection who doesn't mind wicked tactics and insane synergy combos. I do feel though that unlike every other edition I have played seraphon are the top tier army in this game, basic rules or synergy and tactics they truly have risen above from the previous power armies (I always considered them around 3rd though personally)

 

[Bainbow]

Actually there is a difference between a challenge and being competitive, it is impossible for the NFL Patriots to play a competitive game of football against a high school team, they can reduce the number of players or tie their left arms behind their backs for a challenging game but then it would not be according to the rules of football. I cannot play a competitive game of AoS, I can play a challenging game as long as I change the rules of the game, but to truly be competitive then that means I try my hardest to win which is not purposely handicapping myself by adding arbitrary rules. This does not mean the game is not fun when I do add rules to limit myself, just that personally playing all out competitively is my favorite, I love to pit everything I have against my enemy no holds barred and when I claw my way to victory it tastes the sweetest. Wrestling with a child may be a challenge if you do not use arms or your left leg, but being able to still pin the child does not bring about the feeling of victory (It is still though an entirely worthwhile thing I think all Dads should do)

You sound like the perfect opponent with a keen interest in tactics, and if we had similar collections or if there was an official comp system it would probably be the highlight of my week to play against you. And I do recognize that my competitive streak is not a character strength most of the time, but it is still a part of what makes me tic. For that reason I have stopped playing in tournaments and mainly play my brother, he has been the only player to actually beat me in a game of warhammer 5th-8th edition and easily of 300 games, and the first time I lost to him was a glorious moment because I held nothing back in army composition or play style.

I'm probably rambling, for anyone else reading this thread Bainbow is right and AoS can provide an immense amount of fun and challenging games, and if you really need a competitive game find someone with a similar collection who doesn't mind wicked tactics and insane synergy combos. I do feel though that unlike every other edition I have played seraphon are the top tier army in this game, basic rules or synergy and tactics they truly have risen above from the previous power armies (I always considered them around 3rd though personally)

You misunderstand, by self-imposed restrictions I mean wound limits and such for balancing purposes. The subsequent paragraphs are all about challenges to keep yourself occupied rather than being competitive, it's just the wound limit bit saying how you can be competitive.
But I do feel you. I dislike holding back too, it's one of the reasons why I started another army. I would win easily without needing to try, so I never got the rush of being pressed. Still, my last game did give me that pressure and rush, it was the best AoS game I've had. Wrote a battle report about it, if you care to check.