8th Ed. Planning a MASSIVE game for early next year, 10,000 point alliance game, could use suggestions

[Scalenex]

I’m drowning in ideas. Any input to help me narrow down my options?

So the vague plan is somewhere between 6,000 and 8000 points of Lizardmen with the remainder put in Undead Legions or Empire.

Opponent will be between 6000 and 8000 points of Dwarves with the remainder in Warriors of Chaos.

Two generals, two BSBs, and probably going to house rule that everyone can be trusted allies.

Basically these represent the bulk of the model collections of me and one of my best friends.

Note I have a lot more Empire models than I have undead, but our big match is so far away I can use it as incentive to work on my undead army. Even if I go Empire I need to get to work assembling a fair portion of my stuff.

I am of the opinion that Empire would be more effective. Mainly because I want cannons, but I wouldn't mind fielding my Hurricanum and or a Steam Tank (note I have a vague plan to scratch build a steam tank so I better get started if that's what I want to do).

Also, my friend is a forumite on L-O, so I if I want to do something sneaky, I shouldn't post it here. But this is a friendly game and my friend is has exemplary sportsmanship, so he's not going to tailor a list specifically to counter my specific choices.

We played a 6000 point game in the past. I tried a target saturation strategy with five EOTG Steggies and a Troglodon. It didn't work out great. My positioning was not stellar, so I can't blame the army build. I probably want to avoid a Monster Mash list but if I want to run a Steam Tank and Hurricanum I probably want some big dinos so my friends cannons at least have to prioritize targets. Same thing if I want to run Black Coaches, Mortis Engines, and/or Terrorgheists. That's kind of why I'm leaning Empire, because I can take out enemy cannons with my cannons.

While my Empire and Undead armies are constrained by what I have or don't have I can field just about anything for Lizardmen as long as I only take only one Bastiladon.


Core

Regardless of what else I take, two or three units of Skink Skirmishers is non-negotiable. Probably field them 16 + a Skink chief or 12+ a Skink Chief. Skink Chiefs are too expensive to use as "unit champions" in Skink blocks in normal games, but I found the extra Ld is worth the extra cost in grand armies.

Empire and LM: Archers are outmoded by Skinks. Most Empire states troops are outmoded by Sauri. Most Empire Core is going to be knights. Toss in some crossbowmen to babysit my artillery assuming I haven't hit my 25% Core tax yet. A big fat spearmen tarpit is tempting but I don't own that many spearmen and would prefer not to spend a lot of money. So I figure take at least one if not two deep ranked Skroxigor blocks. Fill the rest of my LM Core with Saurus.

Undead and LM: While I'd love an excuse to step up my slow production of ghouls, I think ghouls would get butchered by Dwarves and Chaos Warriors. So undead Core would be tarpits, tarpits and more tarpits (zombies and skeletons). Also dire wolves because I have a lot of them complete or nearly complete and my zombie Cold Ones be awesome looking. With no offensively powerful undead Core, that means my LM Core would be mostly Saurus Warriors.



Characters

Empire and Lizardmen: As much fun as it would be to have Kroq-gar and the Emperor t/Deathwing take opposite flanks and push in, I think I need something more traditional. So Slann general in a very large TG bnker and either a Grand Master or Count Leitdorf (because i like his model) leading a nice big unit of Inner Circle Knights.


At 10,000 points, one Slann is not enough for magic. What sounds better? A) two Slann (Shadow + some other BRB lore) and a few Skink Priest caddies/arcane vassals. B) Light Slann and many L1 human Light wizards. C) One Slann (probably High Magic or WD) with a few Skink Priest caddies/arcane vassals and a bunch of bound spells (Luminark, War priests, Solardon) D) something else.

The Empire BSB will be a Captain with 50 points worth of defensive magic items. He’ll either be on foot with a unit of Great Swords or on horseback with my Inner Circle Knights. Probably on foot.

For combat backup, I could either fill my infantry blocks with some combination of buffing Warpriests, Oldbloods, and/or Scar Veterans, or I could go the mobile route. Two or three Saurus Cowboys and two three Captasi. A Captasus is an Empire Captain on a Pegasus, same basic principle as a Cowboy only it doesn’t hit quite as hard, but it flies. Or I could split the difference with a modest number of infantry fighters and a modest number of mobile lone fighters.

This depends on how many other things will draw cannon fire. If my Captasi and Cowboys are the ONLY isolated shooting targets, that would be a bad thing.

With nice compatible foot prints I can stick a Saurus Scar Veter or OB cowboy in with some human knights, but that is tempting the dice gods to cause a failed stupidity test just for sheer novelty.


Undead and Lizardmen: I would be committed to using undead tarpits. Undead tarpits need Invocation of Nehek for staying power. So that means I can’t afford to take two Slann. I need to invest at least a modest amount of points in L1 Lore of Vampires casters. Lore of Undeath casters wouldn’t be amiss. I could throw Undeath on literally any caster.

Options include a Skink-less Light Slann with a few L1 Light casters Heirophants, and a small team of L1 Lore Vampire casters. I could take an Undeath Slann, a few Skink priests with Heavens, and a small team of L1 Lore of Vampire casters. I could take a High Magic or WD Slann, a few Skink Priests with Undeath, and a small team of L1 Lore of Vampire casters. Or I could go two Lords and take a Slann and a L4 Necromancer.

Whatever I go with for magic, I definitely want the undead general to be a blender vampire lord on foot. The undead BSB will either be a mini-blender vampire hero or a Wight (for the budget BSB). A lot of undead players skip the BSB altogether, but I figure the rerolls might actually help Skinks so it’s worth taking two. Since the undead fighters are so good, I don’t need to go crazy with Scar Veterans and Oldbloods. Maybe one to babysit my Slann bunker.



Special and Rare

Somewhat constrained by models for non-LM.

Empire and Lizardmen: Empire would be a big block of Great Swords, Demigryph knights and three cannons for sure. Options include a Hurricanum, Steam Tank, Hellbaster Volley Gun (or two with a proxy), mortars (if I take the lore of Shadow). I don’t have much else here unless I bought new models or proxied. Flagellants are tempting. Not because they are a good unit, but because they capture my imagination.

If I go artillery heavy I probably want two blocks of Temple Guard. If I go chariot heavy (Hurricanum and STANK), then I’ll want one block of Temple Guard and three or four EOTG Steggies (maybe swap one for a Solardon).

I’m not sure about flyers, especially if take multiple Captasi, do I really need Terradons or Rippers? Then again, there is something to be said for filling the sky with my troops.

I don’t see Kroxigor, Salamanders, Troglodons, baby Stegs, or Razordons bringing much to this party.

Undead and Lizardmen: Big unit of wight guard to house my Blender Lord and maybe the undead BSB too. Probably be my top killer. I could proxy my Empire Knights to make a Black Knight bus to fill a similar niche (and I do have five actual Black Knights to fill the front rank), but my heart just says infantry. I could do both, especially if go the low monster route. Big block of TG, big block of Grave Guard, modest unit of Black Knights. A few flyers of various kinds for backup.

If I go the high monster heavy I’ll want EOTG Steggies and a Terrorgheist and/or Mortis Engine.

I definitely want to field a Corpse Cart. 1) I actually (barely) started working on a Corpse Cart and 2) it will help my Operation Tarpit goal. Probably want to proxy a second Corpse Cart in case an errant cannon ball takes out my good Corpse Cart.

It’s also tempting to buy, convert, and/or Proxigor some Morghasts for similar passive buffs.

 

[airjamy]

Well, that is quite the post, let me react on this on a point by point basis,

I do not think that our Sauri are better in every way when compared to their Imperial brethren, a unit of 50 halbediers with a Warrior Priest in it is still a very strong can opener, especially in larger games where they will not just be circumvented. The detachment rules really start to shine in these large games as it will be easier to make shots count where you want them, and as you can get bigger detachments together and field them in an effective way. The archers are obsolete, i agree on that, skinks are just better, but gunners and xbowmen should be fine additions to your line. I agree on the ghouls, ghould are very often just not worth it imho. With their high volume of attacks and poison, but weak defences, they always felt like a unit you wanted to take in small sizes to have them flank, but they are just not fast enough for that. An eh unit in general, just take more tarpit.

On magic, i like the idea of a Light Slann with a lot of L1 Imperial friends. It should work even better against chaos, and the plethora of buffs you could give are good. Then again, if you go for a Light Slann, Sauri become a lot better, so you might want to consider doing exactly the opposite of what i proposed in the last alinea, and go full saurus with imperial cannon etc support. A TG block seems a no brainer, of at least 50 ofc. I would also take some cowboys if you lack cannons, they are our best anti monster measure.

In the rare slots, i feel that Flaggelants are not as bad as everybody makes them out to be, Unbreakable in a low LD army is strong, especially with their hitting power. Points do not matter that much any more in these big games, so i would certainly try them out in this setting. I do think Sallies can actually do some damage, especially against Chaos, even Warriors die to those templates, and you just need to kill a few to make them worth their while. Call it my bias and love for Sallies, but i see almost no reason in any list not to take them.

Most important thing in such a big game against WoC is IMHO to take measures to take down Daemon Princes, and a lot of them. Even if it is a friendly game, i would not be surprised at at least 2 Nurgleprinces, what are you going to do if those start chopping down your front line? Only thing that really works is a lot of cannons in my experience.. but that is not the most inspirational solution to that problem.

Have fun anyway, and i hope to read the battle report soon, if you feel like writing one.

 

[Scalenex]

Most important thing in such a big game against WoC is IMHO to take measures to take down Daemon Princes, and a lot of them. Even if it is a friendly game, i would not be surprised at at least 2 Nurgleprinces, what are you going to do if those start chopping down your front line?

I'd be surprised to see two Nurgle Daemon Princes. My friend is converting one Daemon Prince for each of the four Gods. I expect that if he fields multiple Daemon Princes they will not be the same kind. I'd be surprised if he doesn't field his one Nurgle Prince. It's one of his farthest along conversion projects and the only Daemon Prince I'm aware of that he's named.

Since WoC are the junior coalition partner, I doubt I'll see three Princes, but regardless, all Daemon Princes are nasty. I feel somewhat foolish for not coming up with a Daemon Prince contingency.

Have fun anyway, and i hope to read the battle report soon, if you feel like writing one.

I will but we are doing this in game in early 2016 so "soon" is a relative term.

 

[airjamy]

Soon is then indeed a relative term, well see it when it comes out i guess. Still, you should have a contingency plan for DP's as you mentioned, and the age old problem in our list is that we do not have one. Maybe simply avoiding them on the table will be a simple first step, but they remain simply overpowered if used well(and i really do not use that term lightly).

 

[Obadiah]

I have never played a battle even close to this many points, and I have little experience with the other armies so I won't comment on tactics. That said, I love the sound of filling the battlefield with lots of flyers! I'd imagine that would be great fun to play with and give you lots of flexibility. But as you've said, I'm not sure who viable it is tactically (not to mention money wise!). Have fun with this one and definitely keep us posted on what you field and the result! Would be very curious to see some sort of battle report.

 

[rantapanda]

Coincidentally we are as well doing a 10k vs 10k battle. Its LM+WOC vs OnG+Ogres. All Trusted allies. Im bringing huge 50 saurus block againt goblins
cavalry bus with tanky oldbloods agains savages
templeguard block with kroak, sig slann and an oldblood on foot. tg with razor banner, ob with 3 attacks sword and glittering scales, idea is to cast some -1 to hit buffs to that unit too. this unit is hilarious, and kroak is my challenger. he can tank like a motherf*** while the rest churn out combat res.
also im bringing skink priests with cube and dispel scroll and ofcourse tetto.
and some regular skinks and one ancient steggie with the engine
Will be tons of fun.

magic will be 4d6 so antimagic is necessary