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AoS I feel like a grumpy old fart :<

Pinktaco
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Pinktaco

Vessel of the Old Ones
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And I'm just 26. A bit early, huh?

No but seriously.. AoS looks interesting. I sincerely wasn't expecting for GW to update every single army book. At once. They couldn't do it before so why now? Fair enough.

But how come they bothered to update all 15 armies with 30 pages for each, create a couple of new armies and herpa derp they gave us 4 pages of rules. WHAT?!

I like changes, but they have to make sense. I like flexibility and room for everyone, but it have to make sense. People who like tournaments have now become the bad guys. People who like things to be organized are equally bad. People who know they couldn't possibly get s fair game from their group should just stick with 8th edition. In fact if you don't like something stick with the old. That's what people have told me:

"nobody burned your old books"
"right but.."
"no buts! "
"but I just wanted a 9th edition with updated rules, models etc"
"create them yourself!"
"but I don't want to? D:"
"then play regular 8th edition"
"now we're going in circles.."

So either I embrace the new thing, create my own rules for 8th edition or I'm stuck with vanilla WHF 8th edition.

I'm not frustrated, but I really like WHF and unless someone picks it up its essentially dead. It kinda makes me sad. The alternative is that someone picks up AoS and implement a whole new set of rules and balance it. Not only that but people also need to universally agree that the improved rules should be the new standard.

I'm not trying to stir up anything here and tell anyone what to do or anything. But I just find the whole situation sad. My motivation for continuing to paint and bother with any tactica just plummeted. Luckily summer finally decided to come to Denmark and roast us all so maybe I should just enjoy the good weather and come back in a couple of months haha :D
 
I feel exactly the same dude, I'm 24 and I'm pretty annoyed by these changes. Would have loved to have seen a 9th edition that patched the flaws in 8th edition. I will definitely play 8th though with buddies.
 
Well I'm a 40-something old fart.
Was sat on the fence about AoS in the run up to it, ignoring rumours and waiting until it actually launched.
I think there's space for both.
Sure AoS is the new thing and GW will be pushing it but they're a commercial business with a new product so that is expected.
I've only glanced at the free rules and our war scrolls but have to say I'm quietly encouraged by them. Will have to have a longer read but I'm not all doom and gloom (yet!) ;-)
That said, I'll still play 8th with my 15year old son and pals.
I might even investigate another system (kings of War - please don't burn the heretic!)
 
I must say that I was pretty excited with Age of Sigmar. I even think the gaming rules are pretty interesting. THe 4 pages don't bother me that much, along a tad more complexity wouldn't hurt.

What really bums me out is the apparent lack of army organisation and point values. It just seems so off and games are gonna be pretty one sided. Dunno if the new victory conditions are enough to balance the game enough, and the worst gaming experience is a really unbalanced one. Also, if you have 3 hero models left against 10 skinks, do those 3 hero models get the extra victory conditions for being uoutnumbered?

Also why can our Slann summon all of our units, if we can just place them on the table top from the start of the game? Seems dumb to use magic dice on that... This just doesn't seem legit.

Maybe GW are gonna charge us for point values? :s As in "Here's the rules for free! Everyone can play! Oh yeah, you need to buy new models with rules and point values in the box".. Maybe? Unlikely...
 
Another old fart here.

Just glancednthe rulez an although i noticed a few interesting things so far the whole thing feels like a cheap trick with gw still missing the point
 
Hojdar said:
Also why can our Slann summon all of our units, if we can just place them on the table top from the start of the game? Seems dumb to use magic dice on that... This just doesn't seem legit.
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From what I understand, if you do not place the unit on the table, then it does not count towards the "Sudden Death". So in reality we could cheese this as mentioned earlier, by bringing three slanns to the table, claim "Sudden Death" then during our next hero round, we could have up to 9 additional units on the table.
 
This is truly a sad day. I share the thoughts expressed by Pinktaco in the original post, as well the ideas put forth by those that share his sentiments. AoS is an inferior game to Warhammer Proper (8th edition), yet it will eventually kill (or at least severely cripple) 8th. We can already see the beginnings of excitement growing for a game that is simplistic, inferior and pretty much incomplete. I think AoS will heavily fracture our community. Some will move to AoS, others to a different gaming system altogether and a scant few may stick with 8th.

AoS is different from any edition change we've had in the past. AoS is not a logical continuation of Warhammer, it is something entirely new. AoS is closer to 40k in my opinion than it is to WFB. When comparing AoS to 8th, I feel that we have lost a lot...
  • intricacies of movement
  • the strategies surrounding the magic phase (6 dicing aside)
  • the customization of characters and units
  • any sense of balance
  • flanks, rears, ranks, etc.
Even considering all that has been compromised, I suspect that most people will flock with what is new. The only hope (a slim one at that) is that there is a real 9th edition hidden behind the horizon.
 
My old-man rant [in short]:

I really wanted to tell my friends this summer that Warhammer got cheaper and simpler. I can't do that in good conscience now. I would eagerly accept all of these changes, except the lack of even aspirationally recommended balancing mechanisms.

This actually ruins the game; imagine Monopoly where every player could start with however much money they wanted, or Chess where you could leave your pawns off the board, and start with eight extra rooks (or queens!) instead. The Sudden Death rules do not change this - I still have ten rooks to your eight pawns. Indeed, Chess already has a Sudden Death mechanism - and the guy with more rooks (or queens!) will still win.

"So buy more rooks!" says your opponent. No. Now we're not playing Chess. Now we're playing "who has the bigger wallet."

Some people might enjoy that game, but I know from cold hard experience that I don't.

I really wanted to like AoS. I might even still play it with some fan-made balancing scheme. But until then: Games Workshop done goofed, and I'm disappointed.
 
I wish I did not, but I have to agree. If possible, I'd rather play 8th or Liazrdhammer, if that becomes a thing.

GW could have made so much, but ended up doing very little, but with potentially very bad sideeffects.

I just hope I'm wrong
 
Well... I like it!

All of the battalions that I've seen look like they've got pretty similar power levels so, again, balancing it with a mechanic along the lines of, 'Bring x battalions, x warscrolls, x wounds per unit max, x wounds per army max' seems pretty fair and simple. Not much different than the point system, really.

At the very least, I'm gonna try it before I knock it. Despite being a departure from 8th, it looks pretty sweet. In any case, I'm glad that the rumors were false.
 
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Ixt said:
Lizards getting nixed entirely, Bretonnia slashed, only six playable factions
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That is admittedly good news. However most of the reliable rumours were stating that all armies would be playable... some would simply no longer receive any further model support.

Ixt said:
armybooks getting nuked
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They did get nuked.

Ixt said:
scale change
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New stuff is a little big, but not too drastic that I can't work. I agree.

Ixt said:
elves combined
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Everything is combined now... you can take whatever you want, from any race, in any quantity.
 
Ixt said:
Well... I like it!

All of the battalions that I've seen look like they've got pretty similar power levels so, again, balancing it with a mechanic along the lines of, 'Bring x battalions, x warscrolls, x wounds per unit max, x wounds per army max' seems pretty fair and simple. Not much different than the point system, really.

At the very least, I'm gonna try it before I knock it. Despite being a departure from 8th, it looks pretty sweet. In any case, I'm glad that the rumors were false.
Click to expand...
Maybe I missed something but the power levels on the WoC battalions isn't even remotely close. One has Chaos Lord and Sorc with a battle hardened army and the other is a bunch of marauders. I haven't played a game yet but foot print size feels like it's going to bend power levels to the nth degree. Still lets cross our fingers I guess
 
I picked up on that as well with a couple of armies. In the case of WoC, their Bravery is very, very low. I mean... it's abysmal. Extremely bad. Constant deserters via battleshock, no doubt. If they opt for the Slaaneshi boon (auto-pass Battleshock), they're missing out on extremely potent offensive boons which they will need for survivability.

Additionally, several of the models mentioned in that specific battalion (Chaos Lord/Chaos Warriors/Knights/etc.) have a high wound count. Warriors have 2 a pop, Knights have 3. Depsite their lethality, that means less models ('x wounds per unit max'). Those are small units, easily crippled or dropped by ranged attacks & mortal wounds.

So in that case, do you want your battalion choice to have a bunch of small, elite units, or large, squishy units (Marauders)? I think that the theory still works. If it doesn't, it may be worth it to implement a 'x wounds per battalion' kind of thing, too.

I haven't played a game against WoC yet, but I have a feeling that their Bravery will dramatically decrease their power level (especially when their General isn't around). They may be more balanced now than in 8th, but we'll see.
 
I hope you are right about the balancing. All I could read though was my small elite force has a much better chance of getting a sudden death trigger. Still after reading a little more apparently shooting is much much stronger then it used to be.
I still need to read another 10 armybooks and actually get some games in. So who knows how this will all pan out
 
Madrck said:
I hope you are right about the balancing. All I could read though was my small elite force has a much better chance of getting a sudden death trigger. Still after reading a little more apparently shooting is much much stronger then it used to be.
I still need to read another 10 armybooks and actually get some games in. So who knows how this will all pan out
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Oh, certainly... they'll get sudden death but they're also very small, and WoC has little by way of reliable shooting units. So they rely on wizards and close combat -- kill the wizards and now that small, extremely elite force only has close combat. I think more often than not, they'll get closed in due to a lack of maneuverability. We'll see, though. I haven't played against them.

Glad you're giving AoS a chance. :)
 
What's the worst that can happen? I hate it and spend more time on x-wing? Or drink until the pain GW causes us all goes away :)
Our play group just did a draft (All brought 2 hero, 2 core, 2Special, 2Rare choices) and took it in turns building an army out of what we drafted. I could see that working well in the current format. But this is all very bad for tournament players or just having a global competitive scale
 
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