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AoS Age Of Sigmar - Lizards namedropped

Iskander said:
Possibly a pyrrhic victory there :hilarious: (depending on what comes next!)
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That is true. But when you've hit rock bottom, there is nowhere to go but up (or to a different game system... or stick with 8th!)
 
Still trying to piece the info I got out of the manager so far together, the way he just said the words make it feels like Lizardmen are going to get some love or was he just trying to keep me in check to see me not rage.

When I go back on Monday I will casually do hopes and stuff to see if he chimes in. I bet he will say that famous line "It is going to be awesome"
But it makes me twitch a bit knowing I know he knows something, I can tell XD
I just want to know about Lizardmen, nothing else, just the Lizards but he tells me to wait and see.
 
The Sauric Ace said:
I don't know, the fact that it seems as we won't be given any new updates is kind of sad. That means no new cool dinosaurs, for like, well ever.... However as many people already pointed out, these are only rumors. Rumors that of course could ha ve some potential truth, but before we here anything from the source, we don't actually know anything.

(I'm still counting on my bet with the carnosaur riders, and super skinks. Skinks from Krypton! :p... But then again, they would be weak to magic.....Just the carnosaur cavalry then, just them)
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We still do not know wether GW has decided to never ever to update our lizards again, even if that is their plan, that plan may change. The whole reason everybody was worried and riled up was that the LM army would no longer be supported, it now seems that it will be a namechange, we go back to the old name. This even makes an update likely, this boek will always be LM, but a new book could be Old Ones. It is all a big shot ijn the dark, but this could be an explanation why LM would go.
 
According to Harry any idea of an army book should be forgotten. :p
 
One book with rules for all, in One book to find them.
One book, dont bring them all, its the largest kind..................ehm....
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Well on the plus side, at least they got all that End Times material out of the stores! :)
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Actually, the potential obsolescence of End Times materials is probably the thing that would get me go quit this hobby after 30 years. Not only did End Times make huge improvements to the game, it sold me about $900 worth of product. If that product, and the time I spent incorporating it into my hobby, is killed off after roughly 1 year of usefulness, it would be a huge slam to consumer confidence. I can't see myself giving more money to them going forward after that.
 
I agree completely.
It would simply not be acceptable behavior to me.

However

To my knowledge the End Times are still very valid, they are just taken out of the store (Army books not included)
You should still be able to order them online, and as "End times" is rumored to be 1 of the 3 play modes of warhammer
I think your investment is still very safe.
 
So there's going to be a Q&A at my GW on the 5th, presumably the other stores may follow suit. If not, feel free to give me any questions that remain unanswered for you and I can ask them on your behalf then bring the information back.
 
Sleboda said:
Not only did End Times make huge improvements to the game
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You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I highly disagree:
  • The creation of super powered factions (combined Elven and Chaos armies)............. horrible
  • The creation of uber characters (Nagash, KFA, etc.).................................................... horrible
  • The creation of a more time consuming magic phase.................................................... horrible
  • The destruction of 30 years of fluff.................................................................................. horrible
  • The release of a bunch of terrible models (with the exception of Nagash)..................... horrible
The only positive thing (IMHO) about the End Times was that it never really fully caught on. Some areas or gaming groups may have been fully on board, but it was regarded as only a supplement or even completely rejected amongst many groups of players community-wide.

Sleboda said:
it sold me about $900 worth of product. If that product, and the time I spent incorporating it into my hobby, is killed off after roughly 1 year of usefulness, it would be a huge slam to consumer confidence.
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I can't blame you there, if I had invested that much money and time, I'd be pissed off if it was scrapped.
 
I don't see them killing off End Times and the rules. They're rather easy to incoporate into a new book. Besides who knows what is going to happen? Maybe all 8th edition stuff will from now on only be Direct Only. From what I can see all the books are still available on their online store.

Nah I wouldn't be suprised to see something like:

  • New skirmish game which is there to serve as gate-way drug.
  • 9th edition warhammer continueing whatever story is left with new armies and new/refined 8th edition rules. This newhammer game will have a completely different view on how army lists are created (maybe unbound with formations like WH40K - at least Harry said we should forget about army books).
  • End Time + 8th edition (Oldhammer/Legacy-hammer) which can be played with the 9th edition ruleset, maybe also the new armies
This would create a very diverse way to play the game. People can completely stick with vanilla 8th edition, End Time rules/part of ET rules, 9th edition rules with old armies or go all in on the newhammer product. It would still screw over people who have old armies because they'll likely never be updated again. We'll likely never see a FAQ for how PF works ;)
Could a new edition of the LM faction be present ind the new 9th edition version of Warhammer? Sure, but I'm very much doubting that it'll allow us to just herp derp transfer our current models into the new range. It'll likely be more akin to a "spiritual successor" faction which is reminiscent of the original LM army, but still very new and different.

I'm very confident that we shouldn't expect something new for us where we can take all our LM dolls and use in whatever "army book" that might come some time into the future.

Obviously all of this is merely speculation, but I'm quite sure that I've heard somewhere there'll be various game types. The above mentioned wouldn't be too far-fetched.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I highly disagree:
  1. The creation of super powered factions (combined Elven and Chaos armies)............. horrible
  2. The creation of uber characters (Nagash, KFA, etc.).................................................... horrible
  3. The creation of a more time consuming magic phase.................................................... horrible
  4. The destruction of 30 years of fluff.................................................................................. horrible
  5. The release of a bunch of terrible models (with the exception of Nagash)..................... horrible
The only positive thing (IMHO) about the End Times was that it never really fully caught on. Some areas or gaming groups may have been fully on board, but it was regarded as only a supplement or even completely rejected amongst many groups of players community-wide.


I can't blame you there, if I had invested that much money and time, I'd be pissed off if it was scrapped.
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  1. While there are super powered factions they did infact give people a reason to use other models. I still very much hate the potential and combination of special rules in the Elven Legion, BUT having stuff like Eternal Guards striking in an additional rank and rerolling 1s in To Wound while also having Armour Piercing suddenly made them more desireable as a core unit. Swordmasters now rerolling 1s as well is quite effective and so on. The biggest issue comes from 1-2 units namely the executioner and more specifically White Lions. Mostly WL to be honest. The Chaos legion made Beastmen a whole lot more interesting and useful and while it's true that some truly nasty units could be created (3+ ward Doombull anyone?) it's mostly okay. The combination of the undeads is the least infuriating of the 3. It actually made TK viable and VC didn't get that much of a buff, except very few key units/changes. Sh1t like including Skaven into the Chaos army and the unbound rule should've been left out. Too much and all kinds of silly.
  2. The uber characters can easily be avoided - ask your opponent if he's going to use them. If he is either refuse to play or bring your own. I don't consider Nagash fair if you're not prepared. They are single model armies and ridiculous.
  3. Personally I never played with the new magic phase. Our doll store have avoided it as well in the tournaments it have held. Contradicting? Maybe, but it worked out well.
  4. It's true that they destroyed a lot of fluff and likely the worst offender of TE books.
  5. I'd rather say that only some of the models were truly horrible. The new spirit hosts? PERFECT. The Morghast Harbinger/whatever? While squishy as fvck they looked great IMO. The nurgle guys were also good looking IMO and have decent rules - they are by no mean overpowered). The biggest offenders here are the khorne guys. They look absurd and dumb. To some extent the new Skaven units are a bit ridiculous as well, but so are a lot of other stuff in that army. I think that by a good paint you can make them fit into the army. Again I'd say the khorne guys are the absolute worst, not just in ET, but for a long time. Absolutetly hate them. I still think though that the rest is alright and if you hate ALL of them then you'll very very likely hate whatever GW brings out next. Harry have already stated that this is the route GW is going and what have made him drop following rumours.
I don't think ET is as bad as it was made, however there are some serious flaws. I think the combined armies could have and should been done better and no unbound rules. Fvck that noise.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I highly disagree:
  • The creation of super powered factions (combined Elven and Chaos armies)............. horrible
  • The creation of uber characters (Nagash, KFA, etc.).................................................... horrible
  • The creation of a more time consuming magic phase.................................................... horrible
  • The destruction of 30 years of fluff.................................................................................. horrible
  • The release of a bunch of terrible models (with the exception of Nagash)..................... horrible
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-Yeah the combined factions were a poor choice.
-Nagash, Malekith the Eternity King, Super-Franz etc are all fine for me, powerful as they are they are more than killable and most armies have counters.
-The new magic phase is a godsend in my opinion, it gives magic a much greater impact and I like that. The only negative there is the poor dwarfs who really deserved a buff to their anti-magic.
-Not destruction, continuation. Fluff is meaningless if it remains stagnant, the continuation of the story was both exciting to read and stood as fantastic plot even without the game.
-All the new models were fantastic I found, especially the new Verminlords which are leagues above the older fairly derpy model. Good God those things almost made me defect from Lustria to join the Skaven.

Overall, I adored the End Times.
 
Pinktaco said:
While there are super powered factions they did infact give people a reason to use other models. I still very much hate the potential and combination of special rules in the Elven Legion, BUT having stuff like Eternal Guards striking in an additional rank and rerolling 1s in To Wound while also having Armour Piercing suddenly made them more desireable as a core unit. Swordmasters now rerolling 1s as well is quite effective and so on. The biggest issue comes from 1-2 units namely the executioner and more specifically White Lions. Mostly WL to be honest. The Chaos legion made Beastmen a whole lot more interesting and useful and while it's true that some truly nasty units could be created (3+ ward Doombull anyone?) it's mostly okay. The combination of the undeads is the least infuriating of the 3. It actually made TK viable and VC didn't get that much of a buff, except very few key units/changes. Sh1t like including Skaven into the Chaos army and the unbound rule should've been left out. Too much and all kinds of silly.
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Personally the individual nuances of each unique army is one of the things I like the most about warhammer. Combining the factions diminishes this for me. Rules-wise, the armies that got combined received a huge boost while others stagnated (Dwarfs, Ogres, Bretonnia, etc). The undead weren't that bad, but combined chaos and elves are made up of some of the strongest individual armies. I don't like purposefully unbalancing the game further.
Pinktaco said:
The uber characters can easily be avoided - ask your opponent if he's going to use them. If he is either refuse to play or bring your own. I don't consider Nagash fair if you're not prepared. They are single model armies and ridiculous.
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Agreed. It's not a problem for me because I don't ever play games with End Times stuff/rules in play.
Pinktaco said:
Personally I never played with the new magic phase. Our doll store have avoided it as well in the tournaments it have held. Contradicting? Maybe, but it worked out well.
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I think many groups steered clear of the Khaine magic rules. :)
Pinktaco said:
I'd rather say that only some of the models were truly horrible. The new spirit hosts? PERFECT. The Morghast Harbinger/whatever? While squishy as fvck they looked great IMO. The nurgle guys were also good looking IMO and have decent rules - they are by no mean overpowered). The biggest offenders here are the khorne guys. They look absurd and dumb. To some extent the new Skaven units are a bit ridiculous as well, but so are a lot of other stuff in that army. I think that by a good paint you can make them fit into the army. Again I'd say the khorne guys are the absolute worst, not just in ET, but for a long time. Absolutetly hate them. I still think though that the rest is alright and if you hate ALL of them then you'll very very likely hate whatever GW brings out next. Harry have already stated that this is the route GW is going and what have made him drop following rumours.
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I forgot about the spirit hosts, they are very nice models. I agree that the khorne guys were the absolute worst of the bunch (followed by the Skaven Ogre-marines). There is no way I would ever include those khorne guys in my WoC armies. Model-wise they made very little sense.
I think you're correct about the future direction that GW may take. If so, then I call it quits and stick with 8th as is. I'm not interested in this 40k-like fantasy style they've adopted (same reason why I hate the Skullcannon and Soulgrinder).
 
Bainbow said:
The new magic phase is a godsend in my opinion, it gives magic a much greater impact and I like that.
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And i always thought the biggest critique on 8th was the overpowered magic. Things like lvl 4 in warlocks moving up the board in turn 1 and 6 dicing purple sunning my General, BSB, and half my army of the table.

Ok this doesn't happen every game! And sometimes magic is a total dud all game, but one lucky roll and it can be game over.


And about the combining factions.....aren't we just going to see the best possible combinations and not much else? I havent bothered with end times, but if you can cherry pick all the good stuff(read: overpowered stuff) will that not result in a very boring game

And about the Uber characters? Ok, perhaps most armies have some counters, however, for example, the Nagash player will know what they are and have counters to the counters. With both my orcs and lizardmen I really need to prepare for such a monster character, and that will mean 90% of the list builts are useless. And even if i would bring my own super character, then two 1000 point characters slugging it out against each other is just boring as hell, just leave your other stuff at home.
 
borkbork said:
And i always thought the biggest critique on 8th was the overpowered magic. Things like lvl 4 in warlocks moving up the board in turn 1 and 6 dicing purple sunning my General, BSB, and half my army of the table.

Ok this doesn't happen every game! And sometimes magic is a total dud all game, but one lucky roll and it can be game over.


And about the combining factions.....aren't we just going to see the best possible combinations and not much else? I havent bothered with end times, but if you can cherry pick all the good stuff(read: overpowered stuff) will that not result in a very boring game

And about the Uber characters? Ok, perhaps most armies have some counters, however, for example, the Nagash player will know what they are and have counters to the counters. With both my orcs and lizardmen I really need to prepare for such a monster character, and that will mean 90% of the list builts are useless. And even if i would bring my own super character, then two 1000 point characters slugging it out against each other is just boring as hell, just leave your other stuff at home.
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1) I hope hope hope that magic get completely changed in 9th edition. It should support the army and not completely ruin an army. Out with all those ridiculous lets-destory-everything spells. They are NOT there to counter hordes as some claim, they are there to ruin the game for whoever is on the recieving end. Purple Sun again any of our saurus units - despite NOT being in horde mode is the very end and is way too punishing just because some might do abuse the rules a bit.
No, more focus on smaller spells that can help you and less focus on purple sun spells would be perfect and would make way for an easier balance in the lvl 1-2 vs lvl 4 mage competition. Currently people want the highest chance possible for that one uber spell. Remove it and have all spells equal and interesting.

It's also true that in competitive environment the combination of lists can create truly nasty sh1t, but it can also create some really interesting things and fun themed armies. The biggest issue here though is the laziness of GW. They didn't give people any restrictions at all and just slapped special rules together like they didn't mean anything.
With that said it's all up to the players ;)
 
@NIGHTBRINGER Concerning combine armies consider this - 15 or whatever armies are a lot. I love it, but also respect that GW cannot properly balance and update it. In a world where you need to trim the fat to ac tually bring more frequant FAQ updates and army updates I'd be okay with combining armies in a meaningful way. I don't think GW did that though and while some of it was okay other things was just completely off the chart dumb.

Having a combined elven legion in 9th edition along with combined undeads and chaos wouldn't have been too bad. Remove the redundant units (2 x skeleton warriors etc) and combined everything unique from every army. They could still have "formations" with the focus on the individual armies (tomb king formation withing the undead legion) that could give unique benefits. Obviously all done in a smart way.

This would cut the total amount of armies to 10, but still allow for individual/specialized armies.

I could accept that IF done in a smart and meaningful way, BUT we all know GW is incapable of that and instead they've sent the IP for the butcher the way it seems.
 
@Pinktaco , yeah i largely agree with you about the magic, I do like the buff and hexes system, cause they need planning and thinking to get the most out of it (eventhough orcs & goblins are quite shafted when it comes to buffs and hexes).
 
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