8th Ed. Defence of GW - Why they are tight with rumours

[Mr Phat]

Just like the rest of you I am terribly frustrated with the way GWs rumor politics are run.

We don't know anything until just a week before the actual release, and GW almost entirely excludes the community in their decision making.

"Why?" has many asked.
I faced One of my business friends, who has considered taking up the hobby, with what he might run into joining the hobby (end times, changes, GW as a whole) and he gave me an answer that lightened up my heart towards GW.

"Why do they do it?": they absolutely have to.

Scenario 1:
GW releases a rumour that they are going to release a Lizardmen box containing 3x Saurus Carnosaur riders, as a MC.
While no models or pictures there of have been released Lustria-Online is overly excited, as we have been wishing for "proper" Monsterous cav for a while now.
After a while they put up the rules for said model, but still no actual model.

Then this happens....a sneaky bastard reads the rumour....lets say that you @Rikard are that sneaky bastard (all love brother!)

Rikard has his own miniature company, and Rikard is fast at making things happen, so he produced a single model, names it Saurus Carnosaur Rider and takes A COPYRIGHT.

Now GW cant release any model with that name.
It doesn't matter they mentioned it first, it doesn't matter that their models are half done.
If its not in production and on the shelf, it counts for nothing.

GW loses all their work on the Carnosaur riders, and will have to rename them, even though Rikards naming is beyond suspicious.
SHAME RIKARD!! HAVE YOU NO DIGNITY?!
All GW wanted was to include us!

Scenario 2
GW releases a picture of a near finished model for the all desired Coatl, no rules, just the name model and the "Coatl".
They are pretty happy guys, just look at them, they just gave the Lizardmen community what they always wanted, and while celebrating they talk about what rules it should have.
But their party is spoiled, because before they are done emptying the first glass of happy-water another sneaky bastard makes his ugly appearance:
@Scalenex , a dark master of rules and fluff pieces, puts his filthy fingers around a quill, dips in the blood of the fan-community, and start writing fluff and rules for the Coatl, as if it was his miniature.

He writes background fluff and rules for the Coatl, but not for WHFB, but for his own game
"Nexus Scales: The bored game"
He then immediately upon finish releases the rules and fluff in a "Big book of monsters" which he then sells on his website (his poorly designed website I might add!) ..........(its still all love ! Nex! )

Now the Coatl is his property.
GW cant sell it without his permission, unless they rename it and make sure that the model is NOT A CLEAR RIP-OFF HIS FLUFF.

Scalenex leans back and cackles a disturbing laughter in his keep at the vampire coast:

(Each syllable resurrecting a dead skink for another life of terrible Close combat.)



TL;DR

If GW doesnt release both rules, names and models together as a single product, competition can swoop in and lay claim to said parts LEGALLY.

The reason they keep things so close is so that sneaky bastards as the two fellas above wont get their chance.
Any leak can result in months, if not years of planning and work getting torn apart by unrightfull claims.

Given: it DOESN'T make the situation more comfortable, but it DOES explain why GW has to be so disguised....why they must hide in the shadows, and let us hate them...for our sake.
In fact, GW is not what the community needs but what it deserves.

 

[Mr Phat]

Btw.............I am currently unemployed ...so if anyone here thinks that "Your Business = Batman" is a nice marketing twist, HIRE ME!

 

[Rikard]

A sneaky person appears....
I've placed oodles of thought into exactly why I sculpt and have these sorts of stances with sculpting, fluff and the like and I think I've found out exactly where I stand.

I love sculpting, I love making new/individual pieces and I love adding new twists on pieces. Let's face it, we all have our own ideas/interpretations of what things should look like, some pieces you love, some you don't and sometimes you even sculpt your own versions of pieces you already think are awesome.

Biting the hand that feeds you
As for being tight with rumours, I got chatting with Jes Goodwin at a GD a while back, while I was doing so, someone asked Jes if they could photograph his sketch book for the latest army release, he then said "sorry mate, but I've been burnt too many times".

I fully understand this stance, as in the past someone has posted a hugely inaccurate rumour which has caused keyboard rage, or sometimes things have been leaked (photos especially) and the internet has exploded in molten rage (often it's at people like Trish, where hilariously intelligence individuals call her "trash").

Seeing how some people behave (especially when you're made aware of their age) is quite frankly, disgraceful, even with a very badly sculpted piece. It's not hard to give a clear and constructive reason why you don't like it, without being rude. Sadly, this rarely happens and so I don't bother with certain sites any more (BOLS is by far the worst for angst).

Can't remember which army release it was, but there was so much bitterness on a certain forum we all know, that since then GW stopped/clamped down on their release leaks.

Things like the chapter house legal battle have also been a huge factor as I'm sure they weren't expecting to lose to the extent they did (please note: let's not dig this horse up, let's leave it buried).

 

[The Red Devil]

I faced One of my business friends, who has considered taking up the hobby, with what he might run into joining the hobby (end times, changes, GW as a whole) and he gave me an answer that lightened up my heart towards GW.

I am afraid that your friend is not completely correct. Copyright does not work like that. To make it worse, the way Copyright work also is different across the globe.

In the first Scenario, the figure itself will be Copyrighted. The name will not, and anyone can feel free to use it.

In the second Scenario, the story/content of the book will be Copyrighted. The name will not, and anyone can feel free to use it.

To protect a name you will need to Trademark it in the countries where you want to protect it. Even if you try to Trademark a name that no one else has, it can be rejected if it is too common. Note. If you keep using a name over a long time and publicly, you efficiently have a "trademark" on it in the area of influence of your marketing if it is large enough (but harder to fight illegal use this way, compare to if you have a real Trademark).

For GW they basically have IP rights, due to a mix of copyrights and trademarks. So the strength of their IP comes from their entire "universe" and that they keep using/expanding it, proving that they still use the IP.

Keep in mind, they have released news about half finished new units in the past.


On a side note, I agree with your friend in that these are not the news GW should confirm/deconfirm with marketing. What they should do is make certain no rumors damage their target group, i.e. in our case the worse rumor was that Lizardmen will be gone. All they needed to do there was release a press statement saying, that the rumor is false, and Lizardmen will still be around in Ed. 9.

Even if they possibly/potentially change the name of Lizardmen to something else, they just need to release another announcement saying they will do that when this happen. Or with the Ed. 9 release.

 

[borkbork]

(please note: let's not dig this horse up, let's leave it buried).

Do you have any idea how hard it is for an archaeologist to leave things buried

I totally understand that GW needs to be carefull with their ideas, however i do still think they are managing the information flow in a very poor way. And forum-bitterness does not sound like a good excuse to stop communicating.

Like i said I am an archaeologist, and the amount of controverse, tensions etc that archaeological finds and excavations can cause is rediculous. And sometimes these tensions can escalate, with archaeologist threatened at gunpoint (not exaggerating!) and the only thing we can and must do is keep communicating. Hidding in our excavation trenches and conducting our work in secret is only works like oil on the fire.

 

[Sleboda]

Good thread.

Lots of it is undermined by other companies, like Privateer Press, who successfully preview things all the time.

 

[pendrake]

I think they simply decided to try something different.

Lots of it is undermined by other companies, like Privateer Press, who successfully preview things all the time.

Keep in mind, they have released news about half finished new units in the past.

They have, in the past, attempted to influence the rumour mill. They have tried to put positive spin (F&B!) on upcoming changes. They've tried to create 'buzz'.

It takes lots of people to do all that. Watch the rumours, put out strategic leaks, issue press releases, carefully vet everything first. It takes a lot of people to make the attempt to build up positive feeling and excitement.

The internet makes it incredibly hard to do well.

And they have decided++ it is all just a waste of effort.
____________

Related[?] note:
What do you guys think of the new packaging? The off-white boxes replacing the dusky red boxes? Spotted some in a brick/mortar establishment.

Or I am just the last to notice something that has been shipping for months?


Notes: (F&B!) Fantastic & Brilliant! ...new...improved...models / rules / Material Finecast, etc.

++It could be IP lawyers clamping down, this total blackout. It is also very Apple-like. No news until the BIG REVEAL.

 

[The Red Devil]

++It could be IP lawyers clamping down, this total blackout. It is also very Apple-like. No news until the BIG REVEAL.

 

[Scalenex]

I believe copyright law is such that GW could release hints about new models without someone beating them to the punch.

But mostly, GW could share a lot of information about non-specific model things.

I have a friend who just started the hobby with Warriors of Chaos a few months before the End Times and accompany rumors hit. He has around 3000 points of models. He wants to know, "Will the models I bought all be compatible with 9th edition?" Until he gets that answered he is not lifting a paint brush or glue bottle again and he is looking heavily into Warmachine and Hordes in the meantime.

Ditto with my friend who just started Dark Elves and has about 1500 points feels similar, though rather than looking into Warmachines and Hordes he's looking into not playing miniatures at all.

That's two specific examples of GW losing money not counting all the people who look at the rumors, assume the worst and say "I quit WHF!" Some of them were not bluffing. The new forum upgrade has revitalized member participation on Lustria-Online but we did have regular posting members who left and never came back when the rumors hit. I'd say we have about the same amount of activity we had before the rumors hit though we are enjoying a cultural renaissance of writing and art (note 9th edition cannot invalidate writing or art). The other WHF sites I frequent, Under-Empire and Carpe Noctem did not have a forum upgrade and coincidentally have a drop in traffic.

I have too many models to run away from the hobby if GW screws me over, but I have stopped buying new stuff until I can get some information. While it's not hurting GW directly, I would like to know "Can I use models with rectangular bases?" since I had just barely begun the grand project of adding textured bases to my whole painted army when the rumors hit. I have not worked on a base since. I'd also like a guarantee that all our models will be useable in 9th edition. I have foregone buying a second Bastiladon, nor have I made any recent expansions to my fledgling Empire and Vampire Counts armies.

Now if GW said something like: "9th edition is going to include three different playable games with the same models. A low model skirmish game similar to Mordheim, an regiment game similar to 8th edtion, and a large points battle game similar to End Times scenarios" that would get excited speculation about the hobby maintaining interest and fans.

At the very least. "We will announce the major 9th edition changes/release a preview at insert date here"

 

[Pinktaco]

For me the new forum made it somehow more entertaining to visit. I frekking luv it. Best forum I've ever been a member of so far :3

 

[Rikard]

That's two specific examples of GW losing money not counting all the people who look at the rumors, assume the worst and say "I quit WHF!" Some of them were not bluffing. The new forum upgrade has revitalized member participation on Lustria-Online but we did have regular posting members who left and never came back when the rumors hit. I'd say we have about the same amount of activity we had before the rumors hit though we are enjoying a cultural renaissance of writing and art (note 9th edition cannot invalidate writing or art). The other WHF sites I frequent, Under-Empire and Carpe Noctem did not have a forum upgrade and coincidentally have a drop in traffic.

For me the new forum made it somehow more entertaining to visit. I frekking luv it. Best forum I've ever been a member of so far :3

Nails on heads hit right there.

The forum upgrade made me realise just how much people care about the place, that more than anything else has given me a firm prod in the ribs to do more and give more than I've done in the past.

Although making people wait too long/keeping them in some form of hellish loop is not a smart thing to do, I do think people make the hobby more so than any number of editions/updates/models/etc.

Even if a "no lizardmen ever again" position appeared with 9th ed, there's no way I'd put my lizards in a box, or on Ebay, I'll carry on regardless and happily so, because of the people, not the company.

 

[pendrake]

I have too many models to run away from the hobby if GW screws me over

Games Workshop is not necessary for you to pursue "the hobby". As long as you don't buy into the notion that "the hobby" is your dollars / shekels / schillings padding the retirement accounts of the high ranking / founding members of GW.

For me the new forum made it somehow more entertaining to visit. I frekking luv it. Best forum I've ever been a member of so far

Nails on heads hit right there.

Gotta agree with this. Mostly. I should point out that ReaperMinis is a very friendly supportive forum. Especially, @Rikard, to aspiring sculptors.​

 

[Rikard]

Gotta agree with this. Mostly. I should point out that ReaperMinis is a very friendly supportive forum. Especially, @Rikard, to aspiring sculptors.

Yup,

Reaper are easily the most friendly/helpful company I've dealt with and by contrast GW is the worst. Reaper will give you excellent critiques and even offer to make some casts of your greens (even if it's their IP) for you and $100 worth of minis (which you can pick). At least that's what they did for me, when I sent them my 28mm lady vamp (based on their 54mm version).

Not the clearest of photos.

GW however do not (I will say here and now, this is based on my experiences with them from 2011 to 2013, they may well have sorted their act out since then), they treat aspiring sculptors very badly, from critique to demands (there is only the right style - their style and with a few exceptions, many of their sculptors will parrot this twaddle at you). There are exceptions, people like Aragorn Marks and Jes are wonderful if you want a good critique and more friendly chat, likewise the Forgeworld crew are brilliant at this as well.

They have a bad habit of not sending people their test greens back or "losing" them in the mail, they kept at least one of mine (but to be fair it wasn't one I had spent much time on, or was sorry to see vanish, it certainly wasn't one of my better efforts).

 

[Mr Phat]

They have a bad habit of not sending people their test greens back or "losing" them in the mail, they kept at least one of mine (but to be fair it wasn't one I had spent much time on, or was sorry to see vanish, it certainly wasn't one of my better efforts).

Thats not an excuse. Its yours, you made it with your time and materials.
Not taking good care of it is respectless and poor character on their part, no matter how much you liked it.

 

[StinkySkinky]

@Rikard Do you accept model requests for money?

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Games Workshop is not necessary for you to pursue "the hobby"

GW is to wargaming like George Lucas is to Star Wars. They both created something special, but now they feed us "The End Times"/"Jar Jar Binks". Maybe Disney will by GW... haha!

I agree with pendrake's idea, which is why I'm not too upset about 9th edition rumours. I'd still like for it too be awesome, but if GW completely messes it up, I remove them from my hobby equation.

 

[Pinktaco]

Yeah if GW mess with the game then stick to 8th edition. It's sad, but it let you play the game. Eventually people will take it upon themselves to make new rules.

 

[Rikard]

@Rikard Do you accept model requests for money?

Only under special circumstances.
- 50% up front,
- They have to match the MINIMUM rates I get offered/paid from other companies (which was about £700 at last look, it's a lot, but I'm not the most expensive person out there and considering how long it takes to sculpt 1 piece, I don't really make that much).
- They sign a contract we both agree on.

This was all caused by people who refused to pay, people who "thought" I worked for free (or only needed paying if they liked it), people who change their minds half way through a piece, or people who constantly try to get you to change/make alterations to what was originally agreed.

I loath working like this, but there's no way round it, given how poorly some people think they can treat others.