8th Ed. Where would you allocate hits?

[Man0waR]

A month ago I went full crazy about Skrox and I fielded a Skrox Horde
40 skinks w/ poison upgrade
5 Kroxigors.

I engage a Khorne Chaos Warriors with Halberds and the first rank 3 attack each allocate into kroxigors while the support attack were forced to hit skinks. Ok the roll was a mess and the unit was beside an EOTG so I only faced 2 wounds on Kroxigors (no one remove) and like 3 skinks (remember support attack)

In exchange Kroxigors just went to town killing 10 of them, funny thing that skinks killed 2.
They lose and they run

But guys who would you attack? Its easy to say when there is 3 or less Kroxigors and you pack some punch, but five? You can't take all of them out. Although they cannot be attacked by support attacks and with T4 4+AS you cannot deal wounds easy as skinks.
Also killing skinks would not remove steadfast.

It seems like a hard choice.
I have a ongoing feeling that bringing many Kroxigors in a Skrox will disencourage players to target them as they realize there would be at least 3 or 4 surviving

Given the choice, who would you target.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I think it depends what you are facing the Skrox with. If you have elite troops that are very killy, then it is best to take down the Kroxigor first. If you are facing the Skrox with lots of cheap models (zombies, goblins, etc) then go for the Skinks to rack up the combat resolution points.

 

[Man0waR]

I forgot to say that you are forced to fight against them with something you are not happy to lose.
Whatever elite infantry, MI, MC, Monster you want, with heroes inside (That kroxigors can outright kill) and so on.

The dilema here is: you cant eliminate half the kroxigors and you can easily lose something. Either way Kroxigors will attack.
Win by CR and try to break them or Kill kroxigors as fast as possible in hope you survive.

 

[Rettile]

+1 for @NIGHTBRINGER
I voted skinks because i think this is, in general, a better choice. According to your last post, though, i have to say kroxigors. Didn't read it before voting and i don't want to change my vote LOL

 

[Qupakoco]

Yeah, with my elite units I'd hit the Krox's too. Krox provide more attacks than the Skinks do if you think about it. 2 Skinks give 2 attacks, while the one Krox behind them gives 3 at S7 no less. You can't afford to ignore the Krox.

The lack of the option to hit the Krox made this unit amazing back in 7th edition.

 

[Bainbow]

It does all depend on who's attacking the unit. If it's a big unit that can afford to take some Krox hits because of a "We Have Reserves" mentality such as a kind of horde, then smacking the skinks around would result in some better combat res. As Nightbringer mentioned though, elite units should go for the Krox. Personally because I tend to field large units that can soak up plenty of damage, I may go for the skinks because they'll snap like twigs.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

The lack of the option to hit the Krox made this unit amazing back in 7th edition.

Agreed, that was quite an advantage over our current system. While I don't think that would make sense in the current army book, I'd love to see a rule where Kroxigors were at the very least -1 to hit, because of the interference of the skinks in front of them.

 

[n810]

Do you remember the 6th edition rules for skinks and Kroxigor?
(Kroxigor may charge Through a skink unit.)

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Do you remember the 6th edition rules for skinks and Kroxigor?
(Kroxigor may charge Through a skink unit.)

Yup. That was an interesting game mechanic, especially when getting the charge meant a whole lot more game-wise.

 

[SilverFaith]

Voted from a Skaven perspective - I would always go for the skinks, almost regardless of what I was using - They would ALWAYS be easier to kill, and the Kroxigors are overkill against anything I might have anyway.

If I have to take another (non-lizardmen) army to base my views on, it would have to be Ogres... in which I'd probably still go for the skinks, actually, because they have poison, and my ogres doesn't have much armour...

Maybe with my mournfang cavalry, I'd take the kroxigors... But honestly, the units that would focus the kroxigors are so limited, I don't think I'd ever try taking down those T4 4+ 3W models just to deny a few S7 hits. I love my kroxigors in my lizardmen army, but for my two secondary armies, Skaven and Ogre, I think I'd always go combat res > kroxigor, especially because the one thing my Ogres have that can reliably deal with them, Ironguts, will strike at the same time as the Kroxigors, making focusing them pointless, unless I plan on a prolonged combat (Which is the equivalent of giving up the unit, unless it's a Deathstar)

 

[Rettile]

While I don't think that would make sense in the current army book, I'd love to see a rule where Kroxigors were at the very least -1 to hit, because of the interference of the skinks in front of them.

What about a 4+ "Look out Sir!" for kroxigors? Imagine: overprotective skinks who die for their big simple minded brothers. And if all skinks get killed the remaining kroxigors gain unbreakable and frenzy: "U kill mah lil skinks... BWAAARGH!!!"

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I feel the more elite a unit is, the more they benefit from attacking the kroxigors.

The worst case scenario for Kroxigors would be facing elite units with S6+. Strength 6 will wound kroxigors just as easily as skinks, and skinks still benefit from a parry. So at S6, the kroxigors are better targets for not only threat removal but also combat resolution. Admittedly S6 is pretty rare (even for elites), but S5 is fairly common, and the difference is not too great. Assuming a better WS than 3, each S5 attack has a 37% chance of wounding a Kroxigor and only marginally better 46% chance of wounding a skink. Under those circumstances, I see no reason to attack skinks.

 

[borkbork]

I am thinking what i would do with my savage orc big uns.

In the first round (+1 s from choppa rule) they will be wounding the krox on 3+ and will only leave a 6+ As
Vs the skinks i will be wounding on 2+ and they will have a 6+ parry.

The skinks will be wounding the orcs on 5+ And the orcs will have a 5+ ward
The krox will be wounding on 2+ with the same ward for the orcs.

Considering the skinks go first, then the orcs and the krox go last, and the difference between wounding a skink and wounding killing a krox is not that huge, i would normally target the krox in order to avoid some high strength hits.

Also depends on formation off course

 

[Pinktaco]

I've been thinking about this. I still can't figure out what to think of it. In order to wipe out the kroxigors before they bring the pain you'll have to bring in a lot of high strenght attacks from the front. The only proper unit for that would be the skullcrushers, second I think khorne halbards/great weapon warriors.

The odd thing is that point wise I always find skrox units to be comparable to saurus warriors. For instance 40 SW vs 40 skinks + 5 kroxigors are almost equal in points.

They do different jobs though so the question is what you want to deal with. I think I'll have to try out big skrox units some time to play-test it.

 

[Man0waR]

The question is:
You dont want to lose a hero/lord , nor the Monster Cavalry/normal Cavalry since that unit is your hammer, not your anvil.
Elite infantry have to hit skinks with all their support attacks. Remember that.

Skrox come from core, and it will be steadfast for sure. 40 Skinks+5 Kroxigors is footprint of 60 infantry models. So your elite still out there.
So in a fight against crap unit, you wont score that many skink kills (5+ AS 6+ Parry) and skrox would break their steadfast.

I think this is a very hard choice. I would go for Kroxigors, no matter what that unit would remain steadfast so I would minimize my casualties.

 

[Pinktaco]

Yeah it brings up an interesting dilemma. Which unit should be used to take out the skrox unit?

Great weapon units have high strength, but at what price? 15 S7 hits will come your way and theyll remove 6 models and take 6 wounds. Next round they'll hurt again.

I think with this unit a lore of life slann and tetto'eko could be interesting. Slann to keep the kroxigors going and tetto to make them hit/wound more.

 

[borkbork]

Assuming the Krox are 5 wide Savage Orc big un horde can deal 10x3 WS4 S5 attacks in round 1.

If i am not mistaken (Krox are WS3 right?) that means the orcs hit on 3+ and wound on 3+ with a 6+ AS remaining for the Krox.
That would avarage to 11 unsaved wounds. So even with a slightly below avarage roll that results in 3 dead krox.

This excludes the characters though.....often the shaman will be in there as well as the generals and BSB, but also a champ.
So depending on the load out of the characters this will change somehting. Orc characters feature great weapons a lot so they would go last together with the kroxigors. However, if they dont have ASL they will bring even more pain to the Krox. Killing 4 in total and perhaps even a the 5th one before they get to strike.

Oh and talking about steadfast. For 3 wounds, you get to remove the equivalent of 4 skinks (base wise), so although the krox might be harder to kill, you may deplete the Skrox ranks quicker by killing Krox instead of skinks.

The downside of killing the krox, is that although you will remove 3 high str attacks per Krox, you will get 4 skinks (4 attack) taking their place. And if the unit has poison attacks this may be equally painfull.

 

[Scalenex]

The more elite and hard hitting your (non-LM) troops are, the more likely you are to target Kroxigor. But there is another dimension that I think usually trumps a unit's vulnerability to Kroxigor. Combat Resolution. If the unit is so big nothing I can do in the short term remove the Skroxigor's steadfastness, I will probably target the Kroxigor. If I'm fairly close to outranking the enemy (even if it takes two rounds) I'll probably go for Skinks.