8th Ed. 2400pts All-comers

[laribold]

So after having a nice bit of success with a stable Lizards list things have gone south rather rapidly recently. So I'm looking at ways to mix things up and deal with some problems I'm facing.

Problem #1: The Slann
Last three games he's miscast and cascaded down the hole... That one act has cost me the game each time.
The chance of giving up c.500 vps like that is just too much. I know that it's a dice game and these things happen but I'm getting the feeling that the risk is just too high.
I'm also feeling overpowered in the magic phase. More and more I'm coming across double (sometimes triple!) Level 4s and the Slann seems overpowered (and I'm worried about him miscasting all the time.)

Problem #2: Avoidance, fast cav and flyers.
My preference for big blocks is seeming to be increasingly obsolete as my enemy runs around and refuses to get into combat. Shooting and magicking and whittling me away. I need more board control against these armies, but still be able to take stuff on in combats.

Problem #3: Style
This is a self-imposed problem in that I like some models and have a bit of a theme that i don't want to throw out with the bath water.
I also want something that's maybe a wee bit different from the norm (cowboys and massed skinks and Tetto). I appreciate that's my own choice but i don't want to 'sell out'.

So anyway, onto the list.

Oldblood
AoD, OTS, GW

Scarvet BSB
Skavenpelt Banner

Scarvet
Arabyan Carpet

Skink Chief on Terradon and a 2+ save

Skink Priest
Lvl 2 Heavens + Scroll

Skink Priest
Lvl 2 Beasts + Cube

20 Saurus with FC (Oldblood goes here)

18 Skinks + 2 Krox with St &Mu

2x SSkirmisher Units

23 Temple Guard with FC and Razor Standard

3 Krox with Champ
3 Krox with Champ

3 Razordon

So a Flyvet is something I've wanted to try for a while. Pretty hard hitting and a big threat range to challenge fast cav

Krox darts with champ are instead of one larger unit. They can still work in tandem or with the other units to try and get into flanks, or conga for assassination runs.

TG with Frenzy are very handy and generally do a number on most enemies.

Razors give me a nice strong ranged threat again to challenge the fast cav. But can they work well enough without magic support?

Saurus plus the OB run 7 wide is a new trial run formation (but Protector's posts in the Saurus tactica thread have intrigued me. Not sure on the load out though...

So, thoughts, critiques and comments are most welcome.

 

[classicflava]

I hate to be that guy but i am really not a fan of your list. Here are some reasons why

-as much as i hate it lizardmen need a slann or Tetto to be competitive. If you are afraid of miscasting then take wandering deliberations as you will rarely be throwing a large amount of dice at a spell which greatly decreases chances of a miscast. Take soul of stone and you need to roll a 3 or lower on two dice to dimensionally cascade. If you are really worried about it take the earthing rod as well
-Instead of a scarvet with the carpet take an old blood so you can give him some more gear to keep him alive.
-your saurus and temple guard blocks are too small. 20 saurus wont hold up to much especially if they soften them up with shooting first. Since you dont have a lot of skirmishing units you are going to lose the chaff war and board control war meaning combat will likely be on our opponent's terms which is not good for medium sized blocks
-put both priests on the same lore so you have a better chance of getting the spell(s) you need. I would go beasts and go double wyssans so you can make your combat blocks markedly better.
-i would take out the razordons for some terradons and chameleon skinks. Without hand of glory the razors are almost always hitting on 6's and the terradons and chamo skinks will help out immensly with the chaff war and board control.

Hope that helps.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Problem #1: The Slann

Soul of stone cuts your chance of cascading in half. It might be useful if you ever go back to using a Slann.

Problem #2: Avoidance, fast cav and flyers.

I like the idea of using the carpet to catch avoidance units. I see that you have the carpet on your scar-vet... would you consider giving it to an Oldblood instead? The carpet in my opinion works FAR better with an Oldblood because you still have 50pts of magic items to work with (Armour of Destiny!). I think the Scar-vet is too vulnerable on the carpet.

 

[laribold]

Thanks for the comments.

This is one of my issues with the Slann. He's so expensive and you need to keep loading extra stuff into him. FoM/WD for spell selection; Harmonic for enough PD; Soul of Stone/earthing rod for miscast protection. Pretty soon he's a 500pt chunk out your army who has to be your general (and 600 VPs to your opponent)

And yes a flyblood is a popular choice but again your looking at a 250pt investment (again your general) who's out by himself. A flying 4+ LoS, 3+ AS, T5 model with 4 s7 pred fighter attacks for less than 150pts should do pretty well in winning the chaff war i feel. A 250pt general flying around by himself chasing off the odd fast cav unit seems like overkill... and one cannon shot away from being a nasty smear and nothing else.

The razors have done pretty well for me so far (as more often than not HoG gets dispelled). Plus they're no slouches in combat either (with Swifstride too for the longer threat range). And with them, the flyvet, the terrachief, the two units of skinks, the cohort and two krox darts i feel I can do pretty well in the chaff war.

The problem with bulking the unit sizes up means that they'll just get ignored/avoided i find. Most things that hit the SW with an Oldblood will take a bit of a kicking i feel. 21 s4 attacks plus the Oldblood should hurt most enemy units.
I guess I'm looking at more of an MMU approach in parts. And the TG dish out enough damage that not much is left standing. It hasnt been much of a problem so far.

I take the point about the Lores though. Just not sure which to go with! Wyssans is great and i do have the characters to benefit from SBoH or Pelt... but then again Heavens has nice high S ranged threat and Harmonic Convergence is great.

I do appreciate the comments

 

[n810]

Seems like a fun change of pace at the very least.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I don't think you need a Slann to be competitive although I do like the big toad for magic and leadership 10 cold-blooded BSB duties. If you elect not to take a Slann, I'd recommend taking a pair of oldbloods. With that setup you can put an oldblood on the carpet, while making your other oldblood the general.

A 250pt general flying around by himself chasing off the odd fast cav unit seems like overkill... and one cannon shot away from being a nasty smear and nothing else.

That is one VERY lucky shot. You have a 4+ ward save, and as long as you keep him within 3 inches of an infantry unit you also get a 4+ LOS roll. How many turns is the cannon going to have a chance to shoot before you take it out.

 

[laribold]

I don't think you need a Slann to be competitive although I do like the big toad for magic and leadership 10 cold-blooded BSB duties. If you elect not to take a Slann, I'd recommend taking a pair of oldbloods. With that setup you can put an oldblood on the carpet, while making your other oldblood the general.

That is one VERY lucky shot. You have a 4+ ward save, and as long as you keep him within 3 inches of an infantry unit you also get a 4+ LOS roll. How many turns is the cannon going to have a chance to shoot before you take it out.

Hmmm, good point Nightbringer. I can swap the Flyvet and Skink Chief for a Flyblood. Interesting idea.

As for the chance of losing the Flyblood to a cannon shot? I'd imagine it's about the same as cascading three games in a row...

 

[classicflava]

Take charmed shield on the flyblood and u should be fine

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

As for the chance of losing the Flyblood to a cannon shot? I'd imagine it's about the same as cascading three games in a row...

Nothing can defeat the scornful dice gods.