8th Ed. New to Lizardmen - First 2,500 point list.

[Akholrak]

Hi there!

As the title says, I am new to Lizardmen, but not to Warhammer.

I have played a few games, but this is my first 2,500 point list.

- Slaan
Wandering Deliberations
Becalming Cogitation
Soul of Stone
Harmonic Comvergence
Channelling Staff
Obsidian Amulet

- Scar-Veteran
BSB
Armour of Destiny
Halberd

- Scar-Veteran
LA, GW, CO
Dragonhelm
Dawnstone

- Skink Priest
Dispel Scroll

- 29 Saurus Warriors
Full Command
Spears

- 2 x 11 Skink Cohorts
2 x 1 Kroxigor
Musician

- 10 Skink Slirmishers
Javelin & Shield

- 6 Chameleon Skinks

- 24 Temple Guard
Full Command
Standard of Discipline

- 3 Terradons

- Ancient Stegadon
Sharpened Horns
Unstoppable Stampede
Engine of the Gods

- 2 Razordons

Please feedback on the list. All advice is welcome. Thanks in advance!

 

[Xbalanque]

Hmm I am not playing lizard men for tht long but I think you can remove the standard of discipline on the Temple Guard because they are stubborn in combination with the the Slaan if I recall correct.
And also a very good choice so I have learned is a Scar Veteran on a cold one. Stupidity is not a big deal since he is cold blooded.
And usually I only take the standard with the troops not the whole command.

 

[Elholm]

i got a few things... here goes:

first Unstoppable Stampede is not worth it you only get the extra attack the turn you charge, i never take it, since i dont think its worth it.

second i dont usually take banner of displine, of the same reasons as Xbalanque, but it will boost your general/bsb ld to 10 which is very nice... i would strongly suggest that you make your slann bsb and then give him the banner of displine to make those temple guard almost unbreakable.

third i there a reson not to merge the two cohort units?? the combined unit will be able to hold longer and deal out more str7 attacks...

fourth i would give the scarvet with AoD a coldone and a greatweapon, he will get a 1+/4++ which makes him very survivable only surpassed by our oldbloods the mobility of two mounted scarvets is awesome.

hope it helps

 

[Scalenex]

I don't see any major flaws in your list. Anything to change would be based on personal preference rather than must-haves. For instance I prefer not to take the EOTG when I take WD Slann because the -1 to casting for one lore won't matter much, but it does other things so it's understandable that you might still want it. Elholm prefers not to take Unstoppable Stampede, but it's only 10 points so it's understandable that you still might want it. I prefer to make my Slann the BSB, but it's understandable that you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket.

The Temple Guard don't really need the Standard of Discipline (since rerollable Stubborn Ld 9 is all but unbeatable), but boosting the Slann's leadership elsewhere is handy. It makes the Slann Ld 10 for using Spirit Leech. Also the Ld 10 comes in handy for break tests for units near the Slann who do not have Stubborn. I'd rather Saurus Warriors test on re-rollable 5 after a drubbing than re-rollable 4.

third i there a reson not to merge the two cohort units?? the combined unit will be able to hold longer and deal out more str7 attacks...

If the Skroxigor are mainly intended as chaff units, then you do not want to merge them. if you envision your Skroxigor mainly as a flank support for your Saurus Warriors or Temple Guard, you might want to consider merging them.

Also, welcome to the forums!

 

[Akholrak]

@Xbalanque I like SoD for units with Inspiring Presence range, less for the Temple Guard, it also makes me Ld10 for Spirit Leech.

@Elholm Thanks for your advice. Unstoppable Stampede is more there because I had 10 free points and didn't know where to put them. Is there anywhere else you would use them?
I also like the idea of 2 Cowboys, but I'm not sure whether it would be better to keep him in the unit and add a bit of kick to the Saurus Warrior unit?

@Scalenex I intend to field the Stegadon inbetween the two Infantry units so they can both benefit from the 6++.
Exactly as I said above - it's also a cheap magic standard too.
The Skroxigor can be used as chaff, but I also wonder whether they could work well as flankers with one flanking the Temple Guard and the other Flanking the Saurus Warriors with the Stegadon in the middle. Does that sound like a viable tactic? Thanks again!

 

[Scalenex]

oes that sound like a viable tactic? Thanks again!

Yes, it will be quite viable, but you will struggle to keep your Steggy alive if you are facing an army with multiple cannons. ou can use Earthblood to heal the Stegadon up to a wound a turn, but that won't cut it if it's killed in one round of shooting.

Unstoppable Stampede is more there because I had 10 free points and didn't know where to put them.

Unstoppable Stampede is fine. If you know where your Skink Priest is going, maybe give that unit a unit champion so the champion can eat a challenge sparing the unit (and the priest) the damage and giving you a slim chance to have the unit successfully flee and rally saving your priest. Long shot, but about the same long shot as having the Steggy's +1A matter.

 

[Akholrak]

Fortunately, I don't face many cannons in my meta, the only armies with Cannons I would face is Empire, Daemons and Skaven and there are all rare occurrences.

What is your opinion on Razordons? I really like them on paper and they compare rather well to Salamanders which is their main competition. Is 2 enough or would a bigger unit size be more advisable?

 

[Scalenex]

What is your opinion on Razordons? I really like them on paper and they compare rather well to Salamanders which is their main competition. Is 2 enough or would a bigger unit size be more advisable?

Salamanders do more damage to targets with high model counts. Razordons do more damage to targets with low model counts. The meta of Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition is biased towards large units, so Salamanders are usually better on the whole.

Salamanders have one serious weakness, and that is mobile chaff. It's hard enough for the flame template to hit mobile chaff, much less significantly wound them. Razordons are very good at killing mobile chaff. That's why I like to deploy both Sallies and Razors at the same time.

Razordons cost fewer points, but they have the same close combat prowess, so you can be more aggressive with Razors over Salamanders when declaring charges. Razordons cost fewer points, but they have the same durability and handler save so you can be gutsier when shielding Ancient Steggies from cannon balls.

There is one major strike against Razordon in that their niche is not unique. Salamanders are almost as good at being living shields as Razordons. Salamanders are almost as good as Razordons for low footprint supporting charges. Javelin Skirmishers are almost as good at handling enemy chaff units as Razordons. Terradons are at least as good as Razordons for distracting flank/rear attacks. Salamanders have no direct competitors for their niche of depleting infantry blocks besides nuke spells for their niche (and Razordons still have to compete with magic missiles trying to co-opt their niche).


To go to your other question. Two Razordons will handle enemy chaff just fine. You probably want a third if you want them to take on heavy chaff units like chariots. Two Razordons can handle a chariot, but it will be a close fight. One Razordon leaves too much to chance. 1 Razordon can easily eat handlers when you need shots or roll a "2" or "4", but two or three Razordons will give you pretty consistently decent shots, most of the time.

Larger units of Razordons are unwieldy for hunting chaff. You want at least five if you want to take on major targets, six is the norm for heavy Razordon strategies. While six Razordons can put the hurting on a lot of things, you really want to include a Focus of Mystery Slann or a Metal Slann to get the most out of your mass shooting. FOM Slann obviously is for Hand of Glory. Metal Slann is for Enchanted Blades of Aiban, or if you can't roll that spell, at least go for Plague of Rust or Transmutation of Lead to de-armor enemies before making them porcupines.

Salamanders are different. Their niche (burning infantry blocks) doesn't change whether they have one, two, or three models in the unit. There is a strong consensus that you don't ever want to go over four Salamanders in a single unit. A slim majority backs up the idea that two solo Salamanders will generally outperform one pair of Salamanders, but that is disputed.

 

[Akholrak]

Thanks for the advice, Scalenex! I'm thinking I will keep 2 for now to deal with enemy Fast Cav and I can use Terradons to drop rocks on Skirmishers. If I find they are having difficulty, I will increase their unit size to 3. Thanks again!