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AoS [SBWiP] Asoteka - Followers of the Old Ones

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Carnikang, Mar 23, 2017.

?

Mortals that Follow the Great Game?

  1. Yea

  2. Nay

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Carnikang
    Kroxigor

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    I disagree in the shields case. I fought Ironjawz who had quite a lot of rend spread out. Most of it was all 1 with only th boss haing a 2. Came in handy there ;)

    as for being a tarpit, yes. Theyre ambushers. They're meant to block a charge/spook a unit and divide the enemy. The points for them will likely be 120-140 for 10, but points will need a good looking at once the units themselves are sorted out.
     
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  2. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Meh, might just be the units I've seen so far that make the rend protection look weak in comparison to the other shields. Plus as I said, things that only work in very specific situations tend to rub me the wrong way. Especially in cases like this were we have a general purpose unit that has a very specific ability, but that ability is taken into account when calculating the unit's value. In a considerable amount of situations I'd be fine fielding our seraphon shieldless if it meant a pointreduction and thus more seraphon to field. At least in the case of the skinks you have he choice of kiting them out without shield but giving them 2 weapons instead.
     
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  3. PhoenixTheCat
    Terradon

    PhoenixTheCat Well-Known Member

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    The Idol of The Vengeful Sotek is extremely OP. I think that you should change the damage for the mouth to D6, and lower the movement to less than ten. No models (That I have seen the warscrolls for.) do more than three wounds consistently for every hit. You should also lower the rend, because only one Seraphon warbeast has -3 rend, and that's the Steg with Flamethrowers. You don't need to take all my advice, but it would prevent the Idol from being a one model army.
     
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  4. Carnikang
    Kroxigor

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    @PhoenixTheCat you know, now that you mention it.... No huge beast does do more than 3, aside from when D6 is used. Hrm. Nit a trend I noticed.

    But, regarding rend. Rend represents armor bypassing capability. A Chaos Gargants Headbutt is -3 Rend and this is fairly analagous. Changing the damage to D6 would balance it better.
    The speed of the beast does need to be adjusted, its somethin ive gotten a bit o feedback on.

    No one has thoughts on its defenses? Had a comment elsewhere about a 3+/4+ being Op.
     
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  5. Carnikang
    Kroxigor

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    Text in Blue is a reply to a specific point, though some of it has been addressed in shorter posts.
     
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  6. PhoenixTheCat
    Terradon

    PhoenixTheCat Well-Known Member

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    3+ is a good save. It is a huge serpent creature (well, I imagine it to be a serpent.) made out of obsidian, so it should have a good save.
     
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  7. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    3+ save with 16 wounds & another 4+ ward save is indeed kinda really OP.

    4/6th of all wounds are saved, half of those are warded, so it requires 48 normal wounds, or 32 mortal wounds, to kill.

    He also puts out 2D6 ranged attacks for 2 damage that are 3 on a 5 or higher with 3+/3+ which should put out eh, somewhere around 10 wounds.
    Monstrous bulk: 4 attacks D6 damage 3+/3+, that's about 6 wounds.
    Thunderous twin tailed: two attacks D3 3+/4+ that's about 1.3 wounds.
    Maw: 1 attack 2+ 2+ 5 damage, that's 3.5 wounds (when at full health)

    For a total of about 20 wounds per turn, not taking into account his rend ignoring most defenses.

    Also, once killed it explodes on top of what's around it.

    It'l basicly outduel anything it faces and can only really be taken down by concentrated effort of multiple units working together, preferabl from ranged.

    He migh be a wee bit OP and can least easily go toe to toe with the likes of Archeon and other silly characters :p

    Also, the golemn is a snake with razor teeth? That's, eh a tad odd, but fair enough, had imagined something else.


    As for the skirmishers:

    Literall the first line in the ancient time bit:

    "In ancient and medieval warfare, skirmishers typically carried bows, javelins, slings",

    And past ancient warfare you get the rise of the gun with virtually everyone using ranged weapons.

    How does that make my claim that skirmishers usually employed some form of easy to carry ranged weapon factually untrue?

    As for my additional rule; I'd like there to be some sort of benefit to mixing the two, beyond just the benefit of having more potential types of units, though it's not strictly necesary.
     
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  8. PhoenixTheCat
    Terradon

    PhoenixTheCat Well-Known Member

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    I think the health, move, and attacks need to be nerfed, and the ward save removed. Also, pictures would be useful.
     
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  9. tom ndege
    Skar-Veteran

    tom ndege Well-Known Member

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    Maybe a general rule for leaders, priest etc could be that a slann in your army can use them as arcane vassal?
    Just came up in my mind while checking this thread
    Can't say anything about the golem cause I have nothing to compare with at hand ( final exams coming closer so hobby's at a minimum at the moment...) but from what I read and hear other armies have similar hard to take out beats... so why not? ;)
     
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  10. Carnikang
    Kroxigor

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    A good deal of it is being adjusted, but it's durability will remain largely the same. Adjusting the Ward save to a 5+ is likely better. As a note, a Nurgle Lord can have 3 saves at 4+, 5+, and 6+ all for one wound. I think a behemoth that is fairly durable, as well as moderately killy, is alright.
    Pictures are somethign I do not have, but I will write out some general descriptions of the units in THE LAND section.

    I like that idea.
    It's similar to an amalgam of Gargant and Rogue Idol of Gork, so there are some similarities.


    Apologies, I only used the first few paragraphs. I cherry picked and did not completely read the article. As it stand though, I believe the term skirmisher does not automatically require a ranged weapon.
    For the additional rule, I'm still creating units, and seeing what all may benefit from what. Of course, a flat +1 to hit could have a few things hitting on 2+ from the Seraphon line, which I'm not sure would do well. Perhaps a unit I have been brewing might be what you're looking for.
     
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  11. Carnikang
    Kroxigor

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    Updated Warscrolls.
     
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  12. Carnikang
    Kroxigor

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    For the Artists in the room, I added some unit descriptions to THE LAND section for you to Browse. Idol will come later as I believe I can find something for that.
     
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  13. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    No worries. Anyways, skirmishers are used essentially to annoy enemies & do some damage to the enemy before the actual battle starts. Generally this is easiest done by bringing some ranged weapons. Run up to the enemy shoot a couple of times then run away before the enemy can retaliate. It doesn't require ranged weapons, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier. At the very least I'd give them something specificly designed to annoy the enemy and slow down their approach should hey decide to give chase. Right now your skirmishers are essentially just cannonfodder and your warriors are closer to skirmishers than they are.

    Basicly skirmishers generally have the following:

    • Lightly equiped, frequently only wearing a large, but light, shield for protection
    • Fast
    • Ranged weaponry
    • use of hit & run tactics.
    The guide, reed pipe & bows from your warriors are briljant for a skirmishing formattion. You can ignore terrain penalties while running away, all the while shooting at those chasing you. Also, the warriors are faster than the skirmishers. The wardrum of the skirmishers of course fits quite well too. The totem a bit less as skirmishers generally don't like getting into the melee as they're poorely equiped. Generally skirmishers only go into melee when having the oppertunity to flank or as emergency reserves and usually their ammo needs to have run out before that. But the totem would not be entirely strange I suppose, especially in combination with somethng like javelins it could allow them to retreat, shoot & charge back in which would be fairly decent hit and run :p

    yea, my initial suggestion for the rule wasn't entirely balanced. But I do think you'l need to get some things going to encourage mixing. Otherwise people will just bring the most usefull ones from either force. If the temple guard are better then the raiders they'l only bring temple guard, if the huanchi warriors are better than the saurus they'l only bring huanchi. If however combining them brings benefits they'l be more eager to do so. I think for this you both need a general "if a Asoteka and Seraphon are near eachother they gain a bonus" kinda rule and a specific "if Asoteka X is near seraphon those seraphon gain Y" kinda rule.
     
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  14. InfamousBeany
    Cold One

    InfamousBeany Well-Known Member

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    Alternatively, just have abilities that affect the Celestial keyword. Having explicit synergies seems a bit ham fisted.

    Also a lot of units really find their niche in formations, so I feel that rather than trying to force a rule that makes synergy between the two factions, maybe put a couple of formations that cover it.
     
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  15. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Celestial covers stormforged too though, including them in the bonus would be a bit odd.

    Formations could fullfill the same niche I'd want this rule to fullfill, but the formations so far are limited by generally requiring rather specific compositions. Unless it's a fairly "open" formation like the bloodclaw or heavenswatch that can take a reasonaly large amount of choices I suspect formations might be too limited for what I'd intend.
     
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  16. Carnikang
    Kroxigor

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    Formations will come, but as of right now, units need to be completed and balanced before anything similar to a Battalion could be brought.
     
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  17. Carnikang
    Kroxigor

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    Well, heres a thought. Im stuck between making the next unit a small group (3) of golems that are tough, but slow that give out one of three buffs (depending on which ones are still alive) or making a behemoth that essentially does that as well, but in a different way. Wounds would add up to be about th same, but what do you all feel would fit better?
    Ideas an input appreciated.
     
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  18. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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    Behemoth! Always room for more dinosaurs!
     
  19. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    This is brilliant!

    nuff said
     
  20. InfamousBeany
    Cold One

    InfamousBeany Well-Known Member

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    I would cast my vote for Golems- so far that would tie a bunch of your AOE buffs to golems which I think is a cool design choice.

    Also I just want to see more cool golems tbh.
     
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