8th Ed. Your thoughts on Carnosaur vs Warriors of Chaos

[Arraine]

Good day everyone

So I went with a scar veteran on Carnosaur last night because I wanted to see how it dealt with chaos lords, heroes and various beasties. While the mount as well as the hero were able to tear the warriors apart, my carnosaur fell quite early in the game. As their initiative and WS are higher and their strength is 4 which still gives them a reasonable chance to hurt and wound him due to his 4+ only armour save and their many attacks. Needless to say, the lord with his 5 attacks and strength 7 hacked through him and so did anything else with a higher initiative and strength 5+.

So it seems to me that unless I have a very large battle where he can focus on flanking, I should leave Carnosaur asleep and rather take the saurus on foot or on cold one to save me the points loss. My saurus hero was completely ignored as everyone focused attacks on his mount. Or am I getting something wrong?

Regards

 

[Spid]

Sounds about right.

 

[Lizardmatt]

Yeah, the Carnisaur has a pretty limited list of ideal targets.
It's the Goldilox of monsters.
You got to have an opponent that's worth enough points to make the Carn worth taking, but not so good that they can take the Carn out.
You also don't want to take him if you are going up against significant shooting.

Shame, as it's a pretty model.

-Matt

 

[Pofadder]

Initiative 2 means it is yet another target that has to be buffed to get his attacks of...so HoG and/ or wyssans. Unfortunately we have msny troops that need to be buffed. I still prefer the ancient steg at least its T6 and 3 up armor save. So I still save the carny for the fluffy games.

I bet the Kraken will have awesome stats

 

[Axolotyl]

Flanking for the carnasaur is the way to go, however a lot of players freak out at the sight of the giant monster, and tend to put a lot of effort into killing it. You can use that to your advantage as the rest of your army will get through unscathed

However if your opponents are wise to the tactic you may as well not of took him!

 

[ZaGreekie]

As a die hard Carno fan i cannot resist but add in my 2 cents here.

Just about a month ago i whent to the reginal turnoment in Barcelona spain, about 100 people there all had to qualify in there local clubs to get into the turnoment.

i came out 14th, and best lizardmen player (not counting anything but battle results, no sportmenship or painting only gameplay)

and i had a dual carno list...

everyone, and i mean EVERY SINGLE PERSON laughed at me when they had there super over powerd vampire, or empire, or what ever lists and me there looking like a idiot with a Carno Gen and Carno BSB and 2 lvl1 mages.


and well the fact i did better then the 15 other lizardmen players with ultra competitive lists with slanns and no carnos shows that they can be amazing.


Now this is a game of dice, sure there is allways luck involed and i did have some luckly strikes but still carnos can be very very effective if used properly.

i need to run out right now but maybe ill write a tactica on how i played them in the turno.



p.s. i relize this post is pointless and all i do is rant about how awsome they can be but not say how or why xD but ill get to that when i have a bit of time xD


my list was

2500pts
carno gen
carno bsb
both 4+ ward gen with CoC

2x lvl1 skinks with scrole and cube

2x 24 sarusu

3x3 rappirs
1x3 taradons
2x bastiliadons with lightcannon
1x 10 skinks with banner (for blood and glory mission)

 

[Dog On Todd]

As a die hard Carno fan i cannot resist but add in my 2 cents here.

Just about a month ago i whent to the reginal turnoment in Barcelona spain, about 100 people there all had to qualify in there local clubs to get into the turnoment.

i came out 14th, and best lizardmen player (not counting anything but battle results, no sportmenship or painting only gameplay)

and i had a dual carno list...

everyone, and i mean EVERY SINGLE PERSON laughed at me when they had there super over powerd vampire, or empire, or what ever lists and me there looking like a idiot with a Carno Gen and Carno BSB and 2 lvl1 mages.


and well the fact i did better then the 15 other lizardmen players with ultra competitive lists with slanns and no carnos shows that they can be amazing.


Now this is a game of dice, sure there is allways luck involed and i did have some luckly strikes but still carnos can be very very effective if used properly.

i need to run out right now but maybe ill write a tactica on how i played them in the turno.



p.s. i relize this post is pointless and all i do is rant about how awsome they can be but not say how or why xD but ill get to that when i have a bit of time xD


my list was

2500pts
carno gen
carno bsb
both 4+ ward gen with CoC

2x lvl1 skinks with scrole and cube

2x 24 sarusu

3x3 rappirs
1x3 taradons
2x bastiliadons with lightcannon
1x 10 skinks with banner (for blood and glory mission)

Would love to read it when you get the chance! And congrats!

Still can't fathom how to use them except in flanks or against bad targets who we could beat anyways. I suppose 1 carnosaur is cheaper than some units we could take to win those combats though

 

[Arraine]

I would be very interested in hearing about that dual carno tactics! I love the carnosaur models and would very much like to put mine on the battlefield again. Hope you find the time to write about it.

 

[ZaGreekie]

Ill start working on a tactica now hope to have it done in a week or so.

and actually referencing fighting WoC one of the members of my team plays WoC and now is scared shirtless of my carnos.

Carno + Bastiliadon within 6" means that the carno has higher initiative then the juggernauts (not there riders)

and the riders normaly will not kill it in one turn. on more then one acation my carno and killed all 3 jugernoughts in 1 combat session.

Statisticly its not that hard think about it 5 attackes, 2.5 hit, 2.3 wound, then 2.3 x D3 you can on a good day walk away with 9 wounds, on a normal day walk away with 5 then your hero hits! and that cleans them up.

The carno (dual carno even more so) IS a "Romantic" army, no question if i go 1v1 vs almost everyone on my team i get masacured becouse they play vampires with 150 zombies and 3 dragons that just scream and my carnos die turn 1. or empire with 2 cannons and 2 tanks. my team is stupidly competitive with there lists, But anything other then a "super competitive" turnoment list the ones that are honestly broken. a carno can do damage against.

The reason why i love Carnos is not how they play, but the mental effect they have on the other players. and my tactic in turnoments with my dual carno list is to make the enemy scared of so many things he forgets what he is doing, and it worked 2 out of 3 times.

turn 1 you have 2 carnos and 60 saurus in your face, and 3x3 Rappirs and 2x3 Taradons behind you stairing at your rear.

people get so freeked out to see that you have more units behind them in there deployment zone then they do that they start to act rashly and this is when the Carnos can shine,

Can other units do the carnos job on the table, yes. but do they scare the enemy shitless as much? no.


also wile im rambling on here sneek peek at the tactica

if the enemy has a big heavly armourd unit that does not have the BSB in range or the BSB was alredy killed, put a unit of flyers derectly behind it, then charge it (even from the other side of the table) with one of your carnos with "blood roar" this is IDEAL vs troops like Chaos Worriors (who are not korn or slanesh) normaly they will fail there test with only LD: 8 and they flee, and where do they flee? RIGHT threw your flyers, meaning dificult terain test for each one of them. and dont forget the 1's do get roled.

also then once the unit is fleeing declair another charge with a flyer or somthing you have in the area, as the unit is already fleeting then the only charge reaction it can make is "flee" which means it must flee a second time! (tipicly this leads to it running off the board, if it did not? CHARGE IT AGAIN! WITH SOMETHING ELS!)



Sorry for the horible english, its my 4th languedge and im deslexic as hell xD ill be sure to have someone proff read the tactica tho

 

[Pinktaco]

Wait.. You vanguard 5 flying units close to their deployment zone and then move forward with 2 x carnosaur and 60 saurus warriors? Sounds pretty lulzy

 

[RipperDerek]

Bloodroar is very good. LD8 models have only a 48% chance of holding against it, assuming no BSB in the area.

The real problem I have with Carnosaurs is that an Ancient Steg with Sharpened Horns is largely just better. The Steg also gets D3 wounds against large targets, but the impact hits happen before the rest of combat, and the Steg is much harder to kill. What's more, you can run an Oldblood cowboy alongside the Steg - use the Oldblood to pin down the unit you want to defeat, then charge it with the Steg.

If you mount the oldblood on a carnosaur instead, he becomes vulnerable to stomps after his mount inevitably dies, and cannons ruin your day twice as fast, since a single cannonball kills both models.

 

[ZaGreekie]

Wait.. You vanguard 5 flying units close to their deployment zone and then move forward with 2 x carnosaur and 60 saurus warriors? Sounds pretty lulzy

I also roar "FOR BLOOD AND GLORY" before i do so xD

Also not "close to" there deployment zone, i do it directly behind them xD THAT freaks people out haha

for those who asked for the tactica on carnos in my view i just posted it:

http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/carnosour-tactica-including-dual-carno-tactica.13052/

 

[ZaGreekie]

Bloodroar is very good. LD8 models have only a 48% chance of holding against it, assuming no BSB in the area.

The real problem I have with Carnosaurs is that an Ancient Steg with Sharpened Horns is largely just better. The Steg also gets D3 wounds against large targets, but the impact hits happen before the rest of combat, and the Steg is much harder to kill. What's more, you can run an Oldblood cowboy alongside the Steg - use the Oldblood to pin down the unit you want to defeat, then charge it with the Steg.

If you mount the oldblood on a carnosaur instead, he becomes vulnerable to stomps after his mount inevitably dies, and cannons ruin your day twice as fast, since a single cannonball kills both models.

This is all true, but i think if you read the tactica you will see my logic, the Carno is a more versitle option in my view. and when you have 2 carnos and 5 flying units behind the enemy lines before they even start there turn they even start there turn it becomes much harder to relax and calmy focuse fire on the carnos.