8th Ed. With High Elves against Dark Elves & Goblins

[Lawot]

I'm about to play a 2 v. 2, 1500 each army (3k v. 3k total).
The Orcs and Gobbos army is not secret - he'll go for a maximum mayhem Squig Assault. The question, though, is what to do about the Dark Elves. I've been told he is an aggressive player...not a sit-back-and-shoot kind of guy.
With that in mind, I've got a couple of possible strategies:
1. Castle - solid defense of Saurus, Temple Guard, and Phoenix Guard, with Slann, Mages, Skinks and Sea Guard letting loose on the enemy (and clearing Squigs from the field). I think we would win...it just seems too easy.
2. Hammer and Anvil - Saurus anvil, High Elf hammer. Simple as that. I'm concerned by the Squigs and Fanatics, though.
3. I'm calling this one Cloak and Dagger, in which Skinks are the Cloak and White Lions are the Dagger. I'll redirect and weaken their advance, as well as taking the initial damage from shooting, before the High Elf elites hit them at full strength. This is what I've gone with for a list:

Oldblood
Cold One
Trickster's helm
Sword of the Hornet
Other Trickster's Shard
shield

Kor-Lot, Scar-Veteran Battle Standard Bearer
Cold one
BSB
Armor of Destiny
Great weapon

10 Skink Skirmishers w/ blowpipe

10 Skink Skirmishers w/ blowpipe

10 Skink Skirmishers w/ javelins

10 Skink Cohorts

10 Skink Cohorts
1 Krox

4 Salamanders (yeah, they'll hate me)
1 Razordon

...leaving me 293 points to spare. I can fit another Scar-Vet, a small unit of Saurus Cav, Chameleons, and/or a Saurus block.

Skinks are there to redirect, as well as to shoot Squigs, Fanatics and Hydras. Razordon is there to hunt Mangler Squigs. Salamanders do what they do. Oldblood, Scar-Vet and the potential Cav are part of the dagger - there to knock out the shot-up Dark Elves once the Squig Assault is over.
High Elves will be providing the magic and heavy infantry/cavalry.

A couple of things I'm looking for feedback on:
Is that an Oldblood that can win challenges?
What lore should the Elves take? Call me crazy, but I'm thinking Heavens.
The 375 point Slann just doesn't seem quite unstoppable enough for me. Would it be worth having 2 Lvl 4 Wizards? And would that require a totally different strategy?

Thanks guys!

 

[Scalenex]

Were I in your shoes I would take a Fire Slann and run him solo. I’d give him Higher State of Consciousness and Focused Rumination for sure. That gives you 50 points to play with for extra magic items or disciplines (I’d vote for Plaque of Tepok). Not only can he burn the crap out the numerous small units you are likely to see but Flame Cage is brutal to Goblins and the plethora of flaming attacks will counter a Hydra if your opponent bring one. A Fire Slann could be

If you can do so without offending your ally you should probably talk him out of taking a wizard so you can couple all your power dice with the Slann’s Focused Rumination. Heavens would be useful yes, but why take an elf wizard with Heavens when a Skink is cheaper and can use his channel ability to aim magic missiles for the Slann. Give the Skink Priest the Cube of Darkness for even more utility. If you do choose to go two casters, I’d give one of them Death. Death is good for removing the characters from a O&G army (which props up their crappy leadership). The hexes go well with Salamanders.

Of the three army suggestions you came up with, Hammer and Anvil seems the most viable. You’ll want a few chaff units to keep Goblin Fanatics and the like away from the Elven knights. Probably elven archers because you are required to take 375 points of High Elf Core anyway.

If you go with Cloak and Dagger concept, I think two Saurus characters is excessive since you have no blocks to put them in, unless you were planning on putting a mounted Saurus character in a unit of elven knights (and slowing the whole unit down to M7). I’d drop a character and reduce the number of cohorts or warbeasts a little so you can contribute at least one conventional fighting block to the High Elves. Lizardmen have great mobile redirectors but the High Elves can’t provide all of your muscle. Don’t forget that High Elves have access to Great Eagles, probably the best redirecting chaff unit in the game.

 

[david l]

I would not bring an Oldblood. Bring a maxed out Slann for magic, and make use of the HE Banner of Sorcery to really load up. Ethereal, extra dice, Loremaster and go to town. If your side was going to take any other wizard at all, I'd make it a High Elf with their Annulian Crystal.

No, I don't think that Oldblood is good in a challenge. Or good at all, frankly. He's only strength 5, which means he bounces off armour. His defense isn't that great either - Trickster's Helm is not a good item, especially in comparison to a 4+ ward. An enemy character will be greater than strength 5 (Orc Warlord could easily be S8 the first round), which means the Trickster's Helm is strictly worse than a 4+ ward, even ignoring that it only works in close combat and the ward always works.

 

[Lawot]

Ok - good stuff! Thank you for the feedback!
Any thoughts on the Dark Elves, though? I'm pretty sure I know how to beat Gobbos...but I haven't played against Dark Elves since 6th edition, when I was just starting out.

The Oldblood was designed with Elves in mind (not Orcs), but criticism taken! I'll experiment with that item in another battle, perhaps.

You know, I was thinking about Fire, but how will it do against DE? S4 will be good, but what will they have for armor?

Ok, suggestions I like so far are Fire Slann and no OB (as much as I want to seem him go to town on some T3 dark elves), and switching out Skinks for Great Eagles on the front line, replacing them in my list with Saurus or TG.

I'm not going to lose any Salamanders, though...the opportunity to fight against almost entirely T3 enemies on man-sized bases is just too good to pass up.

Here's what I can fit:
Slann
Rumination
Higher State
Cupped Hands

Same Core, with 20 Temple Guard+command

OR Slann+ 10 x 3 Skink Skirmishers, 2 units with Javs, 1 with blowpipes; 30 Saurus+command; Skink Priest Lvl 2 with Dispel Scroll and Cloak of Feathers.
OR same as above, but switch Priest for 13 chamos.
OR same as above, but switch Priest for Scar Vet BSB.

Thoughts? We're a 'trusted alliance', so we can share BSB benefits. Will one be enough?

 

[Scalenex]

You know, I was thinking about Fire, but how will it do against DE? S4 will be good, but what will they have for armor?

Witch Elves, Harpies, un-upgraded Shades: No armor
Most Spearmen and Crossbowman, most Shades: 6+
Corsairs, Executioners, Black Guard, most Dark Riders, Spearmen and Crossbowmen with Shields: 5+
Hydra, Dark Riders with shields: 4+
Cold One Cavalry: 2+

with 20 Temple Guard+command

I’d recommend more if you can spare the points. When you don’t take Fire or Light you are going to need spare TG. The rest of the list seems fine in my humble opinion. Maybe a Ruby Ring of Ruin somewhere for more Kindleflame, but that’s hardly required.

Thoughts? We're a 'trusted alliance', so we can share BSB benefits. Will one be enough?

Unless you are using a house rule, trusted allies can’t share BSB benefits unless they are of the same race. You can share a General’s inspiring presence which will be good for you if your partner takes a Prince. Also, your enemies will have an Unstable Alliance so it may fracture (not that the difference is likely to matter).

 

[Lawot]

Right-thanks for the check on the BSB. That means I'll have to go with lone Slann, Saurus, and Scar Vet.

 

[Lawot]

Victory! Report to follow!