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8th Ed. Why I think Lizardmen are Overpowered

yep +1 armor for the helmet too.

Ps. I understand you well enough,
there is very little diference between
teenage Americians and Non-English
speakers on the internet.

On second thought the teens are harder to understand. :P
 
yup i do remember the +1 armor i just can't remember the other thing the helmet does but i don't think you should tell it in the forum since it is kind of against the rule to tell what specific items do... and on top of that i can just check it when i get back to my rulebook.

one other thing i'm not sure you can make a chief with both the maiming shield and the piranha blade isn't it to many points?

nice now i'm getting compared to a teenager if not called one ;) well i would love to be given back those years that has gone by;)

(note to self: now you forgot it again, ohh this is such a pain....)

(hope you understand my teenage English)
 
Sort of Steering this topic back on task, I would actually argue that the best vanguards are goblin wolf riders, because they are cheap, very fast, decently protected (for a fast cavalry unit), can break ranks, are a core unit, and (if you use orcs as your main infantry) don't cause panic. I think that I couldn't ask for more in a fast cavalry vanguard.
 
The best vanguard unit in game is no doubt Dark Riders: Can shoot well, and are pretty OK in combat too. are also core.
 
I still think Terradons are better.

Fly.

Strider-Forests.

Skirmishers. -1 to be hit from range. It helps.

Autohits. This is the clincher. In the games that count, you will only get 1 shot. This shot happens to do 3D3 automatic S4 hits... Compare to a whole unit of Dark Riders who get maybe 10 shot at 5+ to hit. For more than 120% the cost.

IMO combat ability is not necessary. The Chief on Terradon is fun, but its a lot of work to actually achieve a favourable combat with a Vanguard (cause you can't charge if you go first, so no matter what the enemy will have a movement phase to react).


IMO Wolfrides are no where near any good. They are decent redirectors, but they can't get a rare shooting threat turn 1 like Dark Riders and Terradons can.
 
Sure chameleons are good but they arn't exactally gamebreaking. Even as war machines hunters often you will have to take 2 turns to get them. But even against infantry they are just a nuissence rather than amazing.

On the first move unless you finish atleast 6 inches away from the target (which you only really would against warmachines etc) then your already at:

-1 for moving
-1 for long range
-1 for multiple shot weapon

So your already only hitting on 6's

Presuming you have 7ish in a unit that means your averagely hitting only around 2.8 which auto-wound... That isn't really going to bother too much.

Against a warmachine and you can go 6 inches away you will be hitting on 5's aswell meaning you average something like 3.5 aslong as you go first and presuming they having nothing protecting it so you can easily marchin within 6 inches.

They are poorly inaccurate I find =(
 
I'm fine with hitting on 6+. Compare them to Dwarf Quarrellers (crossbowman) who cost the same points (if the Dwarfs have shields, which is customary).

In their first shooting phase, the Dwarfs may be in range of an enemy unit (both the target and the Quarrellers would have to be far from the board edge). The Dwarfs hit on 5+ with S4. If they are shooting at something with T5+ (a warmachine or giant) they have no hope.

The Chameleons can scout 23.99" from the target and almost certainly get a shot off (in fact, 2 shots, double that of the Quarrellers, WOUNDING on 6+).

They are flexible, pack an annoying punch and are slippery bastards to kill.

I suggest you try them. Take 3 units of 5. And 3 units of 3 Terradons. Concentrate first on recognising areas of the opponents deployment zone that he is ill equiped to kill your harassers. Place them precisely there. Remember that scouting is after all regular deployment (so if there is a gap anywhere, you can exploit it).

If there are minimal weak points, make one. Go straight for that Organ Gun or Black Knight unit that is going to sweep you up and wipe it out with Drop Rocks/poison etc.
 
kroxigor01 said:
They are flexible, pack an annoying punch and are slippery bastards to kill.
Click to expand...

That deserves a quote! And I agree with what you're saying. If you use that much support, you can lose some to sui-missions, shooting, failing to rally, combat etc..and STILL be annoying!
If your enemy somehow manages to kill all your support, you should be in such a golden position that you can finish the job. If not: you have pretty much failed.

The Hunted
 
In a 2250 game against Skaven last week, I marched 2 units of 5 (chameleons) up and managed to kill a Warpfire cannon (that would have been very bad for my Ancient Stegadon and Salamanders). Granted, they did not kill their point value (the cannon was only like 50 pts or something--cheap rats). It was worth it in that the skaven player took the time to deal with those two units first (in one instance, keeping some gutter runners out of the main fight for almost 2 full turns).
 
Hiv0r said:
Sure chameleons are good but they arn't exactally gamebreaking. Even as war machines hunters often you will have to take 2 turns to get them. But even against infantry they are just a nuissence rather than amazing.

On the first move unless you finish atleast 6 inches away from the target (which you only really would against warmachines etc) then your already at:

-1 for moving
-1 for long range
-1 for multiple shot weapon

So your already only hitting on 6's

Presuming you have 7ish in a unit that means your averagely hitting only around 2.8 which auto-wound... That isn't really going to bother too much.

Against a warmachine and you can go 6 inches away you will be hitting on 5's aswell meaning you average something like 3.5 aslong as you go first and presuming they having nothing protecting it so you can easily marchin within 6 inches.

They are poorly inaccurate I find =(
Click to expand...


I think an average of ~3 is pretty good seeing as most war machines only have 3 wounds and no armour. i actually prefer big units myself to try and ensure a turn 1 kill on enemy war machines and try and avoid panicing (and if there's more of them, there's potential for regrowth).

obviously they're pretty useless at shooting down lots of infantry, or anything with good saves, but that's not what they're for.
 
I know the item itself has been mentioned but its effect was seemingly brushed off. The skink chief can re-roll any hits with his blowpipe. Why bother re-rolling hits, when you are after poisoned shots doubling your chances of getting them regardless of whether you hit or not.
 
Every time I have mentioned abusing the Hatred rules to make people redirect, ignore me. The Hatred rules were changed.

None of the Dark Elf players I've played have realised this till now :P

I know the item itself has been mentioned but its effect was seemingly brushed off. The skink chief can re-roll any hits with his blowpipe. Why bother re-rolling hits, when you are after poisoned shots doubling your chances of getting them regardless of whether you hit or not.
Click to expand...
It is quite handy yes. But you are still packing around about the same poison firepower as a Terradon unit.
 
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