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AoS Why choose Ark of Sotek over Solar Engine?

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Jack Edwards-Fox

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I have a second Bastiladon to build, and model-wise I like the Ark of Sotek. But 6+ to wound? When you might as well field a Stegadon who's better in melee? I don't get why you'd ever choose it over a Solar Engine.
 
Jack Edwards-Fox said:
I have a second Bastiladon to build, and model-wise I like the Ark of Sotek. But 6+ to wound? When you might as well field a Stegadon who's better in melee? I don't get why you'd ever choose it over a Solar Engine.
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Yeah it is IMO pretty bad. What I like about the Bastiladon and the Solar Engine is that you have an immense threat range and can easily shoot things from turn 1. I would never build the Ark of Sotek.
 
Jack Edwards-Fox said:
I have a second Bastiladon to build, and model-wise I like the Ark of Sotek. But 6+ to wound? When you might as well field a Stegadon who's better in melee? I don't get why you'd ever choose it over a Solar Engine.
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there was an argument for it pre new book, using 2 to zone out the opponent with the threat of Mortals, but it was never a strong argument lol. stick with the Solar array. especially since if you run a TS the solar can fire twice, but the ark cant.
 
any value in the "run/teleport the sotek dino straight into the enemy giant unit" and just sit there the rest of the game. immovable objective argument?
 
Somehow GW managed to make Ark worse than it was before.
 
It doesn't offer the range, the damage, or the volume that the solar engine does. Honestly the damage 2 of solar engine and the shoot twice command ability means that ark is far behind solar engine
 
Yeah GW really screwed up with the Ark. Even in melee the solar is better since it can shoot into combat and deals more damage than the ark. Worst part is that they have the same warscroll so they can't even adjust the obvious imbalance with point changes (unless they make an exception, which they won't). Would've loved a cheaper melee Bastiladon as a designated tar pit.
 
against conventional damage a normal bastiliadon is really, really good but they're too slow to be anywhere meaningful unless you're using starborne. Honestly as it is now, bastiladons are not worth taking in a large amount. Take Two at maximum as solar engines as a gun line of sorts, but honestly its probably better to take salamanders or stegadons
 
Nart said:
Somehow GW managed to make Ark worse than it was before.
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I disagree. 1/3 more shots, and most people couldn't get more than 1 unit in range at the same time anyway with the old ark, so numbering targets and having snakes just wander off, to me at least, feels worse than needing 6 for an automatic wound. especially since with the wound table, the Basti technically only loses two stats as it brackets instead of 3 (cant have both ark and solar ray)
 
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I appreciate the thoughts, end of the day I guess just go with what you like! I am gonna model my bastalidon with switchable gear so I can play around with it
 
ILKAIN said:
I disagree. 1/3 more shots, and most people couldn't get more than 1 unit in range at the same time anyway with the old ark, so numbering targets and having snakes just wander off, to me at least, feels worse than needing 6 for an automatic wound. especially since with the wound table, the Basti technically only loses two stats as it brackets instead of 3 (cant have both ark and solar ray)
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against a single unit the new one is better if there are 2 or more the old one is better damage wise on top of that the new one means you need to make a charge and does not act as aria denial. they are both bad but the ark in the old book could bet into the enemy army turn 1 and reek havoc the new one has no such ability. heck if we had the old bastiladon in the new book it would be actually good as having a 3d6+1 charge would almost always get him in after teleportation and he would be a good anti deathstar pick at his current points
 
As everyone said the Ark of Sotek is worse than the Solar Engine, and even if you want to melee. (I have had some success, if your opponent has a unit that does a ton of damage without mortals, the bastiladon can lock it down).

BUT if you are looking to compare, the Ark does do mortal wounds and the SE does not. So, if you're against a huge armor save it could do better on the math. for example, an Ark of Sotek Bastiladon would win a fight against a SE Bastiladon (I think? the problem is how many times it would get shot before getting into combat... ugh, Ark is just not well balanced).

With a melee range of 3", maybe it's a bit easier to get your attacks in on that enemy hero and get 3 mortals.
 
Gailon said:
As everyone said the Ark of Sotek is worse than the Solar Engine, and even if you want to melee. (I have had some success, if your opponent has a unit that does a ton of damage without mortals, the bastiladon can lock it down).

BUT if you are looking to compare, the Ark does do mortal wounds and the SE does not. So, if you're against a huge armor save it could do better on the math. for example, an Ark of Sotek Bastiladon would win a fight against a SE Bastiladon (I think? the problem is how many times it would get shot before getting into combat... ugh, Ark is just not well balanced).

With a melee range of 3", maybe it's a bit easier to get your attacks in on that enemy hero and get 3 mortals.
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negative on that basti vs basti assessment. the moment the ark gets bracketed its over. and the sheer volume of attacks from the solar that hit will force far too many rolls for 1's to save to not come up
 
ILKAIN said:
negative on that basti vs basti assessment. the moment the ark gets bracketed its over. and the sheer volume of attacks from the solar that hit will force far too many rolls for 1's to save to not come up
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By pure averages: 9 attacks hitting on 4's, wounding on 3's is 3 successful. Again, by pure average that's one failed save in two rounds. So the Ark equiped Basti could be rolling into the third battle round with zero or 2 wounds on it - still not bracketed.

Once in melee the Ark gets to attack in each of half of the battle round, because melee can activate on opponents turn.

If there is an objective in the middle of the field (so the SE basti can't just run away) then the Ark equipped Basti is going to win by pure math, put it in coalesced (where thunder lizard is) and it's advantage gets greater (because now the solar engine is doing 1 damage).

BUT, that's all absurd. That's not how power level is assessed. I don't see every running the Ark in the current scroll if I'm trying to win (I'm sure I will run it for fun, I have mine magnetized to switch out).

I was just trying to say how you could argue for it. mortal wounds and the Ark attacks twice per battle round (of course SE can do that in TL with a command...) is the only argument I can think of.

If I'm trying to make it useful, I guess I'd try to put it in Starborne Thunderquake battalion with a EotG, where my goal might be to get into melee to soak up attacks, and then the battalion ability, EotG, and Slann spell can heal every turn, possibly really keeping the enemy locked in combat with it and bouncing off the 1+ save as I keep healing it back down so it isn't bracketed.
 
Gailon said:
By pure averages: 9 attacks hitting on 4's, wounding on 3's is 3 successful. Again, by pure average that's one failed save in two rounds. So the Ark equiped Basti could be rolling into the third battle round with zero or 2 wounds on it - still not bracketed.

Once in melee the Ark gets to attack in each of half of the battle round, because melee can activate on opponents turn.

If there is an objective in the middle of the field (so the SE basti can't just run away) then the Ark equipped Basti is going to win by pure math, put it in coalesced (where thunder lizard is) and it's advantage gets greater (because now the solar engine is doing 1 damage).

BUT, that's all absurd. That's not how power level is assessed. I don't see every running the Ark in the current scroll if I'm trying to win (I'm sure I will run it for fun, I have mine magnetized to switch out).

I was just trying to say how you could argue for it. mortal wounds and the Ark attacks twice per battle round (of course SE can do that in TL with a command...) is the only argument I can think of.

If I'm trying to make it useful, I guess I'd try to put it in Starborne Thunderquake battalion with a EotG, where my goal might be to get into melee to soak up attacks, and then the battalion ability, EotG, and Slann spell can heal every turn, possibly really keeping the enemy locked in combat with it and bouncing off the 1+ save as I keep healing it back down so it isn't bracketed.
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but whats the math on those mortals hitting. that's a one sided assessment
 
ILKAIN said:
but whats the math on those mortals hitting. that's a one sided assessment
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By pure math the Ark does 3 mortals before being bracketed, so it brackets the other basti down on the first round of melee.

Of course then you have the bludgeoning tail going back and forth. It's REALLY going to matter how those early saves go. There's a decent shot (I think about 33%) that the Solar Engine doesn't do any damage at all on a bastiladon in two rounds or shooting.

But, doing pure averages doesn't really do either scenario justice, as what we'd really want is percentage chance for certain scenarios. An average might show 2 damage, when it's a 50% chance of 0 and a 50% chance of 4, which will play out really different.

It's all just a thought experiment, although I do find it interesting because I like dice probability. If you're changing an Ark of Sotek into battle, you probably want Mystic Shield on it, and some way to heal it. The SE of course has long range so it can target units without a good armor save, and get in that 2 damage. Give it +1 to hit with a skink priest and kill a support hero in the one volley. So the Basti v. Basti cage match is kind of silly.

I am sure the Ark of Sotek version wins (if we say they walk toward eachother, so give the SE two rounds of shooting before melee). At this point I will try to do the math later and come back.

The SE is still better by a long shot, no way getting around that.
 
this is the mortal wound spread on a ark
graph.php

http://tools.druchii.net/graph.php?q=r:610:18:1:m000&s=
0 wounds 4% 1 wound 14% 2 wounds 23% 3 wounds 25% 4 wounds 18% 5 wounds 10% 6 wounds 4% 7 wounds 2%
that said the sun cannon will always win a fight between the to as it can just kite forever. even if you force the fight it will live for 2-3 turns witch is more then worth it to waist the opponents time
 
There was a time, back to old seraphon, when ark of sotek was a solid choice (there was a build which was truly impressive).

Actually, i only pick the solar engine.
 
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