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7th Ed. Which Lore to bring down star dragon?

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skinker

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A prince on star dragon is one of the hardest things for me to deal with as a lizardman player. The prince will usually be run with dragon armor (ignores flaming attacks) that give 2+ REROLLABLE armor save and a 4+ ward save. The dragon himself is toughness 6 with 3+ armor and 7 wounds.

I am torn between 3 lores for taking this big nasty down with my slann...

Beast Lore: Beast cowers is great if it can get through. Hunters Spear is a nice strength 6 magic missile that ignores armor... but its only gonna do one wound 50% of the time (if it hits the dragon, it needs a 4 to wound and if it hits the prince he can ward save it with a 4+). The 2d6 magic missile is only strength 3 but as elves are toughness 3, this isn't a bad utility spell to use on the rank and file. Wolf Hunts could be useful for propelling a stegadon into the dragon, though I'm not sure this would kill it and I'd probably end up losing the steg! Maybe if the steg had a warspear... Finally, bear's anger could be cast on an oldblood or scarvet with the jag charm before he flies in and attempts to knock the prince off his high horse (errr, dragon).

Metal Lore: Not something you'd normally think to bring against a dude with fire immunity but hear me out... First thing you cast on him is law of gold. He must either choose to eliminate his armor re-roll and 4 up ward, or his dragon armor that gives him 2+. Either way, you've made him vulnerable and you can continue to blast this every turn till all his magic crap is gone. Next cast spirit of the forge on him. Prince will ignore the blasts but dragon will take them. 2d6 strength 5 hits isn't too bad since you will wound it on 5s. The 2d6 strength 4 magic missile is also great on his swordmasters, etc...

Shadow Lore: Pit of Shades will do a partial on the dragon, full on the prince. If the prince rolls a 6 for his initiative test, he's gone. If the dragon rolls a 3+, he's dead because his initiative is so low. This means you have a 25% chance of the dragon just going away every time this spell gets through! Creeping death may get a wound through on the prince here and there (x2 if you've got banehead on him) as it does 3d6 strength 1 hits on the unit. You just need a 6 to wound the prince who then gets no armor save, but still has his ward. Finally, steed of shadows and unseen lurker can be used to propel something into the dragon that will get the job done.

So which lore would you pick against the big nasty?
 
i played against one today, i took death, but sadly my soul stealer spell kept bouncing off his ward. my skinks managed to kill the prince eventually with uranons thunderbolts/burning alignment, sadly the dragon itself continued on to kill both my stegs.

i can see what you're saying for lore of metal, just seems rather risky. espeically as for a few turns you wont have much else to cast.

pit of shades, as i understood it, the mount gets to use it's riders I, as per the rulebook faq :
Occasionally, a model with multiple parts that have
different Characteristics, such as a cavalry model, a
Character riding a Monster or a Chariot, will have to
take a Characteristic test (like an Initiative test for a Pit
of Shades spell). If the model has multiple values for the
Characteristic to be tested, which one is used?
A. Unless differently specified, use the best value, in other
words the value that makes it more likely to pass the test
 
That doesn't really make sense for them each to test separately... that's like say this hole opens up in the ground and although the dragon escapes the prince falls off the dragon and down the Pit...
 
What should be highlighted is the first part of that. "Occasionally, a model with multiple parts that have
different Characteristics..."

The important thing to note here is that this rule refers to a single multi-part model. Is a Lord on Dragon a model with multiple parts? Or is it two separate models because they can be killed separately? I've always treated them as two separate models, so this rule doesn't apply here. But others may play it differently.

"such as a cavalry model, a Character riding a Monster or a Chariot"

Hmm, are there cases where monster and rider can be treated as a single model? Maybe they were referring to more unusual circumstances, where monster and rider share wounds on their profiles?

I can definitely see the point of just taking the one test using the higher initiative. This would be good news for Stegadons at least.

I hope this is one of many rules that 8th edition tightens up a bit.
 
strike the dragon with the blade of realities. kill the dragon, the lord will then run from terror from the carno. i know its leadership 9 but hey, if that doesn't work then it takes 5's to wound and then attack it with the carnosaur at S7. that's no armour save for the star dragon and its at D3 wounds. just kill the dragon, don't worry about the rider too much.
 
The problem with the oldblood carno combination is actually getting him in to combat with the dragon. The dragon can fly, so he'll stay out of combat until he wants to, and he'll be getting the charge, so chances are the dragon/elf prince will do some pretty serious damage to your carno before it can even attack. Don't get me wrong, a carnosaur can mess up a dragon (and really wreck toughness 5 mounts, like griffons and manticores) once he gets to attack, the only problem is so many of these mounts fly, and the carnasaur just can't catch up to them. I think a carno should be used as more of a gigantic cold one, and aimed at the same targets you would aim a group of 5 or so cavalry at. Seems to have pretty much the same effect ^_^.

As for a magic lore, I think i'd go with beasts myself. Pelt the dragon with forked lightnings/thunderbolts from your skink priests while keeping it tied to the ground with beast cowers. The importance of the fact the dragon flies should never be over looked. As long as you keep cowering it, you have basically taken out the threat of dragon/lord completely. Admittedly, chances are you aren't going to be able to do it EVERY turn, so stick it in combat with some jungle swarms or something. Just don't let it go anywhere, and you'll make your opponent have to deal with the fact that 500 or more points are just sitting there useless.
 
Play safe and go beasts. Win the battle by trying to limit the damage the dragon causes and killing the other squishy elves.
 
If you can cast beast cowers on the dragon the same turn that you charge the it with a stegadon or maybe some cavalry (may need wolf hunts), you can probably win combat because the dragon won't be adding his massive number of high strength attacks. Just attack the dragon, and win combat, then you get a shot at running them down. If you happen to kill the beast, then it'll be easier to run down the lord.
 
skinker said:
Metal Lore: Not something you'd normally think to bring against a dude with fire immunity but hear me out... First thing you cast on him is law of gold. He must either choose to eliminate his armor re-roll and 4 up ward, or his dragon armor that gives him 2+. Either way, you've made him vulnerable and you can continue to blast this every turn till all his magic crap is gone. Next cast spirit of the forge on him. Prince will ignore the blasts but dragon will take them. 2d6 strength 5 hits isn't too bad since you will wound it on 5s. The 2d6 strength 4 magic missile is also great on his swordmasters, etc...
Click to expand...

One thing to note, the 2+ armour also gives him the immunity to fire, so if he chooses that have at him with fire.
Having said that, I think I agree with the beasts suggestion. It is a bit more versatile and can help you get the charge as well as slowing him. What is his magic defence like? Also remember that despite the armour, the elf is still only t3 with 3 wounds so somewhat fragile. Unfortunately the dragon is the threat, its leadership 9 means it probably won't fail monster reaction and you will have to kill it as well.

Why use magic? Blowpipes seem the best choice to me. Sure you need to get close enough and he flies, but if you have a fair few skinks it should be ok. Combined with the magic this is probably the best way. Star dragons are indeed incredibly tough though.
 
I found that two Stegs with Giant Bows cause enough threat to a Dragon that the HE player has to compromise his plan because of fear of being skewered. It is a large target, so you do get the +1 to hit. The real key I found is having 2-3 Priests and hoping at least one, if not more of them, get Second Sign of Amul for some re-rolls to hit and wound.

You still have to count on beating the ward save but if you can force two a turn, he may just fail one, and rolling D3 wounds could be devatating. I still find just the fact the HE player has to rethink where he plops the dragon down, and how he moves it, allows you to concentrate on just wiping out the rest of the force.
 
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