AoS When to Carnosaur

[skipperyoss]

Been having problems recently, I usually run Kroq-Gar and he's recently been failing me a lot. Is there ever a time to run a Scar Vet over Kroq-Gar? What scenarios.

Any tips are appreciated!

 

[Bowser]

Scar vet has the better command ability, less killy but a better general if you're running a saurus heavy army. And great with the firelance starhost if you're fielding knights.

 

[Bracnos]

Kroq-gar looks way better in the table...

 

[Padre]

Scar vet is more defensive. He had a shield while the Old Blood doesn't.

 

[skipperyoss]

I usually run Gor-Rok as my general. Scar vet better than his?

 

[Bowser]

If you're running a lot of saurus heroes your oldblood is better, but if not then the scarvet is the way to go for a general.

Oldblood +2 to number of attacks for saurus hero

Scarvet gives a saurus unit gets an extra attack on rolls of 6. Makes a huge difference if you have a block of 40 suarus warriors or if you have a big block of guard.

 

[skipperyoss]

Yeah no large block for me but I do run a lot of heroes, as I said I usually make the sunblood my general for rerolls to hit against target enemy unit.

In the average 1000 point game I'll have 4 leaders so maybe kroq is worth it

 

[Bowser]

Oh yeah if Sunblood is your general then stick with the Kroq-Gar. Re rolling for the clawed forelimbs is great for monster hunting.

 

[skipperyoss]

For sure, the reason for the thread is yesterday my friend used my army, I used his (Chaos mainly Everchosen/slaves), he was running a Scar Vet instead of Kroq and the damn Vet lasted longer than my Oldblood has ever. Was fairly funny watching Archaon fail to kill Saurus Guard for 3 turns in a row until Varanguard straight up wiped them out after wiping out Saurus Knights in one turn.

Such a disgusting unit

 

[Padre]

For sure, the reason for the thread is yesterday my friend used my army, I used his (Chaos mainly Everchosen/slaves), he was running a Scar Vet instead of Kroq and the damn Vet lasted longer than my Oldblood has ever. Was fairly funny watching Archaon fail to kill Saurus Guard for 3 turns in a row until Varanguard straight up wiped them out after wiping out Saurus Knights in one turn.

Such a disgusting unit

The Scar Vet will last much longer for the sole reason that he ignores all -1 rends, so he gets his full save. In some ways, it's the same trade off as between Lord Kroak and a Slann. Higher defense traded for less offense.

In terms of the Varanguard, it all depends on how he kits the unit out and what you have. A decent size squad of Saurus Guard backed by a star priest and a skink priest should destroy them 3 out of 4 times, as long as they are roughly equal points value.

Basically, keep the hero near them and put them in terrain or cast arcane shield on them. Then, the priest casts his re-roll armor saves ability on them. At this point, the only thing you fear is his daemon blades and the spears on the charge. The rest should be bouncing off 2+ rerollable armor. It gets even uglier if you bring the eternal starhost and a star priest.

 

[skipperyoss]

The Scar Vet will last much longer for the sole reason that he ignores all -1 rends, so he gets his full save. In some ways, it's the same trade off as between Lord Kroak and a Slann. Higher defense traded for less offense.

In terms of the Varanguard, it all depends on how he kits the unit out and what you have. A decent size squad of Saurus Guard backed by a star priest and a skink priest should destroy them 3 out of 4 times, as long as they are roughly equal points value.

Basically, keep the hero near them and put them in terrain or cast arcane shield on them. Then, the priest casts his re-roll armor saves ability on them. At this point, the only thing you fear is his daemon blades and the spears on the charge. The rest should be bouncing off 2+ rerollable armor. It gets even uglier if you bring the eternal starhost and a star priest.

Too be fair I think the Varanguard will beat an equal force of Guard. As you said with the spears on a charge they get the -2 rend (which I had kitted them with much to his chagrin), I had also marked them as Khorne and kept a Bloodsecrator nearby with his totem out (+1 attack) and had an Aspiring Deathbringer within 6" (+1 attack). Varanguard get to reroll failed hit/wound rolls if you take the Everchosen battalion (I did).

Drops the 2+ save to a 4+ which isn't bad but it's not great. Starpriest would make it a +3 to hit but still, hits are getting through and killing 2 guards each due to wounds. So 15 attacks at+3s and +3s with rerolls on top of the -2 rend and 2 damage. Plus they can immediately do a double attack once per game. Equally stacked Varanguard should win 9/10 times as long as the dice gods are at all average.

3 Varanguard are 320 points, a bloodsecrator and aspiring deathbringer are 100 each.

Guard are units of 5 for 100 (15) for 300, priest and starpriest are 100 each.

Chaos is 20 points ahead but it will never even out due to Varanguard cost.

Guard are incredibly powerful, I had a group of 10 with a rerollable 2 save hold up archaon for 3 turns before he landed a single slayer of kings roll which took out 3 of them. You are underestimating Varanguard.

Anyway I was just wondering what the personal experience is of Scar Vet vs Oldblood, as I echoed earlier I always seem to struggle with my Oldblood. I ran a Scar Vet today, didn't do too well. Other than positioning monsters, any ideas on how to make shooty units not slap them silly with wounds or is it just something I have to give up and deal with?

 

[Killer Angel]

I enter the battlefield too...

regardin' the Varanguard issue:

Varanguard get to reroll failed hit/wound rolls if you take the Everchosen battalion (I did).

(snip)

Guard are incredibly powerful, I had a group of 10 with a rerollable 2 save hold up archaon for 3 turns before he landed a single slayer of kings roll which took out 3 of them. You are underestimating Varanguard.

Varanguard are strong, but against 15 buffed guards?
Correct me if I'm wrong (never faced them) but on paper 3 varanguards deliver 9 attacks with fellspears, 3+/3+ (+2/+3 with archaon, but at that point we have Starlight). 18 attacks with Relentless Killers.
On average, on 18 attacks you'll have 12 hits, and then 8 successful "to wound" with rend -2. 4 will be saved, so 8 dead guards.
I don't know what formation gives to them, but if Varanguard have the Everchosen Battallion, then Guards should have their eternal starhost, starting at save 2+ without magic. Have fun when your weapons deal d3 dam.
let's say that they wipe away 8 guards, the other 7 saurus guards will deliver 22 attacks at 3+ 3+, dealing d3 dam.

That said, if Varanguard deal so much damage, and on average (tnx to buffs that i don't know) they can kill with ease more than 8 guards in their charge, then simply form a veil with disposable skinks between them and your guards.

Or deal with Varanguard with shooting. Let them charge your guards, and blast them with sallies. Bye bye everchosen.

My suggestion, anyway, is to use a starpriest, not only for the Starlight, but also for the Serpent's staff, that will buff the carnosaur...
thus introducing the carnosaur issue!

Anyway I was just wondering what the personal experience is of Scar Vet vs Oldblood, as I echoed earlier I always seem to struggle with my Oldblood. I ran a Scar Vet today, didn't do too well. Other than positioning monsters, any ideas on how to make shooty units not slap them silly with wounds or is it just something I have to give up and deal with?

If you deal with high rend guys, probably a Bastiladon would serve you better, especially if you consider that agains chaos demons the beams deal 3 dam. Varanguards will take just 2 dam, but won't be able to kill the basti.

Anyway, we're talking about carnosaur.
Both of them are good, 'cause their bloodroar will help you (you kill one Varanguard? battleshock test! the other two won't flee for the battleshock, but you have a chance with the roar)
IMO, the Oldblood should serve you better, for the following reasons:
The oldblood will give shooting support; it may be weak, but rend -1 is nice, and gains +2 Vs chaos demons
Carnosaurs are fast, you don't keep them in the frontline, but you do the countercharge: doing that, you will attack first, so better do deal heavy damage rather than a slightly better defense.
Shooting against carnosaur could be a problem, but you'll notice the difference only if the shooting got rend -1

 

[skipperyoss]

I am definitely going to try the starpriest with them. That and mystic shield might be what I'm looking for! Thanks

The thing with Varanguard is that they are mortals and can be marked with khorne. So bloodsecrators and aspiring death bringers will give them +2 attacks. So purely hypothetical fight, you have 3 Varanguard who get 5 attacks each, using the double attack for 30 attacks total at +3 +3 -2 2. With rerolls to hit and wound on both combat phases. I feel that would wipe out the guard. We aren't even counting the mounts attacks but that probably wouldn't kill any.

 

[Killer Angel]

I am definitely going to try the starpriest with them. That and mystic shield might be what I'm looking for! Thanks

The thing with Varanguard is that they are mortals and can be marked with khorne. So bloodsecrators and aspiring death bringers will give them +2 attacks. So purely hypothetical fight, you have 3 Varanguard who get 5 attacks each, using the double attack for 30 attacks total at +3 +3 -2 2. With rerolls to hit and wound on both combat phases. I feel that would wipe out the guard. We aren't even counting the mounts attacks but that probably wouldn't kill any.

Under those circumstances, guards would be wiped away, even with Starlight.
15 Attacks x2= 30 attacks to hit at 3+. 4+ with starlight means 15 successful "to hit", and then 10 successful to "wound".
with a save 4+, you're going to lose on average 10 guards, probably more due to mounts' attacks and rule on nat. 6.
A single starpriest is not enough, you'd need another wizard for a mystic shield, or a priest to re-roll saves.