8th Ed. what's the best way to field a carnosaur?

[Raithial]

so here I was, cleaning up my model-closet, when my carnosaur model pops up, all dusty and forgotten; a real shame since it's a truly magnificent model. and I wondered; what's the best way to put him out in the field?

simply put; what kind of equipment suits the carnosaur and it's rider best?
the way I was thinking was
equip him with Burning Blade of Chotec, Shield of the Mirrored Pool and the dawnstone.
adding that with the Light Armour from his "mundane equipment", makes him a very tough hombre in 2000pt matches.
basically in terms of defence, he'll get a rerollable 2+AS, and gets to bounce back MM's, and he does a ton of damage due to the Burning Blade.
I'd say that makes him pretty durable, but I wanna know what you think? and I am also wondering on how I'll support him with the rest of the army. large blocks of Saurus or lots of little skinks and skrox units? CoC, Stegs, Terradons, (sallies is no doubt) and/or razordons?
so, lemme know what you guys think, will this carnosaur build work well on it's own in a 2000pt game, or will it flunk badly compared to other builds? and how would you support him with the rest of the army?

 

[Stonecutter]

The biggest vulnerability of the carnie lord is the carnie, not the lord. Giving him the mirrored shield will help with MM but any other spell or random shots will hit the carnie on a 1-4 and the rider on 5+. While his 1+ re-roll (+1 for being mounted) will keep him alive, carnie has minimal protection and thus a way must be found to protect the mount from shooting, magic and, most importantly, template attacks. Here are a few ideas:

1. war machine hunters - scouts and terradons are essential to kill the war machines ASAP even if you have to throw them into CC to keep the machine occupied. A dead or fighting war machine can't shoot.

2. skrox - they move as fast as the carnie lord, thus allowing him to get into combat with a ranked unit quickly. This can help avoid an entire turn of exposure to shooting/magic. In addition, you can put the carnie lord on a corner so minimum attacks are directed back at him and the mount. Another use is as a screen to protect from BS shooting (-2 for hard cover)and, with luck, cannon balls. If the cannon ball doesn't kill the krox completely then it stops in place. By placing the carnie lord directly behind the krox, there is a chance a cannon will either fail to wound the krox or only do 1-2 wounds.Either way, your lord lives just a little longer. If the attack is a stone thrower, this won't work but pray for a scatter!

3. signature heavens spell - useful at shutting down war machines and reducing the ability of the enemy to hit the carnie lord with shooting and/or CC.

4. Steggie - useful as a screen and thematic for a monster mash list. Better than krox at stopping cannon balls but most likely better used as offering another potential target.

Equipment - the BBoC is too easily nerfed by cheap items in the book. Blade of might or sword of hornet might work better for around the same points.

Picking your Fight - An important consideration is the ability of your opponent to neutralize the lord by declaring a challenge. To avoid this, try to make sure he goes into combat with a ranked unit that has a champ so you get at least one round of thunderstomping at S7. The key is getting the carnie into combat since he will really have to beat up a lot of troops in order to earn his points. Pick your fights with this in mind - getting tarpitted by slaves is a bad idea but assaulting the grey seer on a bell inside a unit of clan rats = dead wizard and a dead bell fairly quickly rendered into scrap with a couple of failed ward saves vs carnie. Similarly, try to hit the flank of units with carnie to minimize attacks back at the mount while you pin the front with something tough (steggie, saurus, etc.).

 

[Raithial]

nice, I really appreciate the tips, since it'd be one of the first times I'll be deploying my carn in a propper battle. I've had him in a few minor battles before, against some inexperienced players, and he seemed like an insurmountable challenge for them(but then again, we're talking about players who tend to get as many core troops as possible against my Carnosaur, and then get thunderstomped.

So lemme get this streight, I should have a group of Kroxigors standing between my Carn and the Cannons and stuff, to grab the balls as they come my way, and keep my Carn ramped out of Challenges? Sounds easy enough. Sword of Hornet or Blade of Might seem attractive indeed, so I'll give it a go. ^^
thank you for the really nice feedback, I'll be sure to put it to good use. ^w^

 

[Huichi Mixi]

Ironcurse icon for 5 points giving the whole unit a 6+ ward vs war machines wouldn't go amiss . Looks pretty decent though.

Kroxigors will only provide cover for BS skill shooting for the carnie and yes they will help with cannon balls.

Intervening units that obscure more than half of the target model/unit count as hard cover. -2 to hit.

 

[Eladimir]

Might not be super helpful but the best way to field a carnosaur is to play a storm of magic game and take a solo carnie for 210 points, solo steg for 215 and rock and roll.

 

[Moniker]

I like giving my lad the Fencer's blades. Extra attack, tougher to hit, and helps win that combat res because he'll be landing his shots. Throw on Glittering Scales and he'll likely only be hit on 6's most of the time.

The trick, as others have mentioned, is keeping the Carnosaur alive. I've found that if I've got an Engine of the Gods trucking about, my opponents rarely shoot at anything inside the bubble shield, and so I tend to take them as a pair. Bloody expensive though, and in 2000pts it means I usually have a Skink Chief hiding in the back with a banner, mundanely equipped (though with the VoFF, he killed a spirit host and a banshee once!) Adding in another Steg really makes your opponent think about his shots, especially since you ought to be harassing at least one of his war machines.

 

[Scalenex]

Use the terrain.

When I read through the 8th ed book I didn't linger long on war machines because I play Lizardmen I didn't bother to digest that section. Then one day I did an army swap with my friend who collects dwarfs so I read up on cannons some more.

Upon rereading the artillery rules I learned that barriers stop bouncing cannon balls (once anyway before being destroyed). Since learning that basic fact that everyone else already knew, I stopped rolling barriers in the games I play. In any event I vowed the next time I play a foe with cannons to use my terrain placement to put barriers in the paths I want to send my big dinos down.

 

[Eladimir]

Yep its true. Your carnosaur can duck behind a fence and get a round of safety

 

[Hinge]

I play my Carno with (I play 2,500 point tournaments btw):

Burning Blade
Charmed Shield
4+ Ward
Other Tricksters shard
Light armor

Since the lord has one of the higher initiatives in the army, he strikes first to get of regen. If I run into a character with a dragonbane helm/gem, the Carno takes care of him. The charmed shield helps against the first cannon ball. A cannon only has a 33% chance of killing the Carno out right. Even if it does, the Charmed Shield keeps the lord alive and he jumps into a nearby unit, denying my opponent the points. The OTS gives me a pretty good chance of ganking characters with the ubiquitous ToP. Heck, this guy has killed two of the “unkillable” DE Lords thanks to the OTS.

Stonecutter’s advice on support is excellent. I use terradons and cham skinks to hunt down enemy warmachines and EoTG for a 5+ ward bubble and target saturation.

 

[Scalenex]

Picking your Fight - An important consideration is the ability of your opponent to neutralize the lord by declaring a challenge. To avoid this, try to make sure he goes into combat with a ranked unit that has a champ so you get at least one round of thunderstomping at S7. The key is getting the carnie into combat since he will really have to beat up a lot of troops in order to earn his points. Pick your fights with this in mind - getting tarpitted by slaves is a bad idea but assaulting the grey seer on a bell inside a unit of clan rats = dead wizard and a dead bell fairly quickly rendered into scrap with a couple of failed ward saves vs carnie. Similarly, try to hit the flank of units with carnie to minimize attacks back at the mount while you pin the front with something tough (steggie, saurus, etc.).

I am confused. Since Carnosaurs inflict extra wounds on multiwound models, don't you WANT to have your carnosaur fight the enemy lord. That's what they excel at isn't it?

 

[Raithial]

I am confused. Since Carnosaurs inflict extra wounds on multiwound models, don't you WANT to have your carnosaur fight the enemy lord. That's what they excel at isn't it?

actually, I've found a number of times that you don't want your carnosaur in combat against an enemy lord. You'll want him battling medium monsters (not the big stuff like Hydra's or the big ogre monsters or the aragnarok, but the medium ones, like Gryphons, ogres, trolls that kind of stuff. His I2 is what usually kills the Carn.
Personally, if you have the points, give the lord Blade of Realities if you want to take on the really big monsters or stuff, otherwise you're dead. I've lost my carn one to many times to an enemy lord to charge him in before I am perfectly secure I can take him on. I'll first test him out with a skink hero or champion or something to check his magic items and so. or I'd simply run into his unit, declare a challenge with a skink, but not with the lord, causing him to have to choose between getting a skink hero killed, or diving into the back ranks. Both ways, a carnosaur will severely cripple the entire unit, because we're talking S7 Thunderstomp!

 

[Moniker]

Carnosaur is also only weapons skill 3, so chances are he won't be hitting that awesome lord so his Str7 and D3 wound won't even come into play. He's meant for chomping on other monsters, certainly.

 

[Raithial]

Carnosaur is also only weapons skill 3, so chances are he won't be hitting that awesome lord so his Str7 and D3 wound won't even come into play. He's meant for chomping on other monsters, certainly.

though his greatest use is against Monsterous Infantry. Ogres, Trolls, Kroxigors(in case of civil war) or monsterous beasts. small-medium creatures. Anything that fits on a Kroxigor-base basically.

My last match was against skaven, and I simply drove through my opponents Rat-ogres, and overran them into his warfire cannon-thingies. yeah, well, terror took care of that. After that he turned around due to his frenzy and went after his main-stay unit, the stormvermin horde.
I used a skink chief to keep my Carn from being challenged and basically won by a nasty combat resolution thanks to the added damage from the Thunderstomp, the 4 attacks from the carn, and the attacks from the rider in combination with my Cold Ones and Stegadon.