8th Ed. What to bring against the new DE?

[chefsdad]

There is nothing in our army that can fight executioners. Absolutely NOTHING. And witch elves (and spears to an extent) will rinse saurus, and witches will destroy anything less than a 2+ armour.

As sad as it is, the answer to DE (I think) lies I'm the same place as how we deal with everything - magic, shooting and cowboys. Skirmishers and salamanders will blow the infantry away if given time, and cowboys can pose a threat to the lower strength stuff (even hydras at a push).


Did you not manage to get fiery convocation off on the execs? They wouldn't have like that!



I think our biggest problem is the warlock bus. Several characters in a unit of 10-15 warlocks (one char with magic res). All theory at the moment, but I literally think that unit can just do what it wants to our army, provided they doombolt the cowboys off. Even then, they're faster and gw-toting masters will likely do a number on them.

 

[Sleboda]

To answer the direct question posted in the topic title -

A rosary
A rabbit's foot
A horseshoe
A small statue of Buddha
Your lucky pair of underwear

Basically, whatever token of superstition you think will bring you luck.

 

[olderplayer]

The statement that nothing can deal with execs is a bit extreme. Wish it were true, but it is not. Go back and read my longer math hammer post. TG do pretty good against them with 2 attacks each along the front rank making up for the higher hit rate exces have of TG. One hand of glory aon the TG nd the math starts to flip, same with iceshard or miasma on execs. You also have good poison shooting and chaff to whittle the unit down and delay combat and salamanders.

Cowboys are great for dealing with witches, dark riders and warlocks but a bad answer for execs due to execs having killing blow and S6 attacks cutting through the big armour save.

The problem with witches is they have no armour, so skink shooting tears through them, as do spells, and the death hag cauldron required to give them a 5+ ward save is very vulnerable to some attacks and a huge points sink for one unit. Unles the hag has a magic weapon to cut through armour, a scar vet with 1+ AS can challenge the death hag and kill it or challenge the champ and kill it. If they take Crone to deal with that and have a cauldron, Crone is really vulnerable to certain spells, like arcane unforging (which might take one of her magic items that makes her so nasty) and the character sniping death spells. Also, that unit has superfrenzy and can be baited around. One tactic I saw work was running a saurus unit narrow with spears and deep in ranks and suicide charging the witch elf unit with crone and a death hag/cauldron. You end up getting cut to shreds (by just the death hag and crone, very nasty) but having just enough models left to wound or kill crone and to kill the death hag very often.

 

[Crillaz]

Olderplayer,

Thanks for all the great math hammer and the advices.

How would a bastiladon do against witches? Can it hold it up and maybe win the combat due to thunder stomp? What is the math on that? What happens if the above unit contains a deathhag or Crone?

How would it work to go with some swarms next to a saurus or TG block when meeting execs?


/Crillaz

 

[Putzfrau]

Olderplayer,

Thanks for all the great math hammer and the advices.

How would a bastiladon do against witches? Can it hold it up and maybe win the combat due to thunder stomp? What is the math on that? What happens if the above unit contains a deathhag or Crone?

How would it work to go with some swarms next to a saurus or TG block when meeting execs?


/Crillaz

seems like even with the 2+ armor save you'd die pretty quickly to poison attacks.

 

[Crillaz]

Olderplayer,

Thanks for all the great math hammer and the advices.

How would a bastiladon do against witches? Can it hold it up and maybe win the combat due to thunder stomp? What is the math on that? What happens if the above unit contains a deathhag or Crone?

How would it work to go with some swarms next to a saurus or TG block when meeting execs?


/Crillaz

seems like even with the 2+ armor save you'd die pretty quickly to poison attacks.

So,

How many attacks would it be against the Basti? 4? each from the front row of witches in front rank. Will it be 5 in base to base contact? 20 attacks + 5 from rear. Is 25 attacks correct?

so just over 4 poison attacks then.

With a 2+ save, don't you think it can hold them up?

/Crillaz

 

[Sleboda]

I don't. No.

It's 4 witches touching for 16 attacks (super frenzy) plus 4 more in back.

20 Attacks is 3 poison hits and 17 other attacks, of which 12 hit, leaving 5 misses, which are re-rolled resulting in, let's say, 1 more poison and 2 more hits.

So, 4 poison and 14 hits.

14 hits = 2 wounds. 12 failed wounds are re-rolled (cauldron) getting 2 more wounds.

8 wounds total.

The 2+ is actually a 3+ since any DE player with any experience and a desire to be competitive will realize that the only real weakness witches have is armor, and thus they will have the Razor Standard.

2 wounds sneak though. The best is half dead before it swings in the first round of combat.

 

[Electric Puha]

Then it has the beasts three attacks, four skinks and thunder stomp vs T3 elves. Not to mention even 20 WEs with command and Razor Standard are almost as expensive as 2 Basties who can pew pew and then stomp stomp stomp.

Really though, the words you want are "I cast Fiery Convocation with 6 dice."

 

[Pinktaco]

The snakes from the bast will actually so well against them. T3 and no armour saves? All the attacks combined could potentially do a number on them.

 

[Crillaz]

Can the laser beam be used while in close combat?

If so I think it would be worth a try with the basti.

 

[Electric Puha]

I don't think so, it's a magic missile, but you'll have a turn or two as they cross the field.

 

[Pinktaco]

Can the laser beam be used while in close combat?

If so I think it would be worth a try with the basti.

No, but AFAIK the snakes can be used against a unit your bast is in CC with.

 

[chefsdad]

The statement that nothing can deal with execs is a bit extreme. Wish it were true, but it is not. Go back and read my longer math hammer post. TG do pretty good against them with 2 attacks each along the front rank making up for the higher hit rate exces have of TG. One hand of glory aon the TG nd the math starts to flip, same with iceshard or miasma on execs. You also have good poison shooting and chaff to whittle the unit down and delay combat and salamanders.

Didn't say nothing can deal with execs, said nothing liz have can FIGHT execs, reliably anyway. A similar sized unit of temple guard might be the best chance, but DE can throw spells too, and i think with higher init and rerolling to wound will be swing it in protracted combats. It's dicey, and therefore unfavourable.


I did mention that salamanders, skinks are, IMO the best way to deal with them, alongside magic missiles - anything that can do damage without having to commit.




With regard to witch elves, park a cowboy in front of them. if he's got a 1+ rerollable or a ward, the witches should bounce off. Just make sure the Slann is nearby to reroll the break tests. Of course, you have to factor in the Hag - an ogre blade will make short work of him. At which point, you shoot them!



Unfortunately, the common theme here is that most (if not all) DE infantry are far better in combat than anything we have (bar cowboys). So magic and shooting is the way forward.

 

[lizard_sNow]

I personally think that our saurus can handle the DE spearmen and swordsmen and even their xbows, which is as it should be. Anything with more attacks or strength is much harder to handle, which covers all their other units, which should be handled with care. I do like the idea of our wonderful bastilodon in either form. I am thinking that one unit of saurus and a whole cloud of skinks, supported by a lazerdon(s) and cowboys is the way to go against DE. What I think is fantastic is that we can utilize our cheap core units to make sure the nastier units they have wont ever be 100% when engaged in cc. Go skink cloud for the win!