AoS Weapons: what does your choice depend on?

[Mr Phat]

In 8th we knew the clear difference between weapons

- Hand weapons and shield wound on base strenght but gave an armour boost.
- Halberds add'ed 1 strenght on cost of using two hands.
- Greatweapons add'ed 2 strength on the cost of using two hands and getting "Always strike last".

One was good as a can-opener
One was good for defensive units
Now we need to re-adjust, and I am not entirely sure on how to do so, as the game has changed.
Take the Oldblood for instance



When I look at his weapon options, I have no clue why I should pick one over the other.
You will have the shield no matter what, and there is nothing that changes the speed in which you strike.

This leads me to think that rend, damage and amount of attacks is what is the true difference, as to hit and to wound is more or less the same.

Lets start by sorting by "potential damage"

Suntooth maul: 6 dmg (on average 4dmg)
warblade: 4dmg
War-spear: 4dmg
Greatblade: 4 dmg

Potential damage doesn't vary that much, which means we have to look at hit and wound rolls.
These however, baring the war-blade, is exactly the same.
The values might be reversed, but to my knowledge this doesn't change the outcome in actual damage
(Math me someone)

We have range, but since you must be a fool to not pile into reach of 1'' the spears extra inch only helps if you want to hit something standing behind the front line

So far only the suntooth and warblade makes sense (biggest potential dmg and best hit/wound scores)
But when we take rend into account I would say everything BUT the warblade is viable.

I see no reason not to go with the Suntooth Maul, as it potentially have the biggest output, and is on par with the others on rend.
As there is so much "re-roll to hit and wound" in our army I think that those rolls become less important...but thats just me thinking in synergy outside these actual values.

What is your thoughts?
I really dont see that big a difference.

 

[Avak786]

For my games I've just taken what my oldbloods are modeled with weapon wise, it seems to work but then none of my oldbloods have swords. Or take the mounted one it gets predatory fighter but better!

 

[pendrake]

What is your thoughts?

Take the one that can —potentially— do the largest number of wounds.

As a request: could everybody look through their minis and link or snap one picture of each oldblood weapon option to this thread?

I am a bit baffled by all the new weapon names. Just assuming there is an option on the sprue —some sprue, somewhere— for each thing named, but I don't know that for a fact.

 

[n810]

my guess on what theses used to be.

Suntooth Maul = Parana blade
celestite warblade = Sword of bloodshed/Sword of battle/Sword of might ?
celestite war-spear = spear (sort of)
celestite greatblade = Ogre blade + banehead

 

[Ixt]

Range is huge. I go with the war-spear, usually.

OB can dish out attacks without having to take attacks back in the right combats when manipulating pile in.

The way that you do that is have him charge something with another unit. Pile the other unit in first, then have him pile in later. With that spear, he can do a lot.

In my game, he charged a dying unit of Ogres that I was sure the TG would kill, and that I was sure the OB would survive if he were, in fact, attacked. They killed it before the OB attacked, but I had positioned him near *another* combat, within 3" of the enemy. Therefore, he piled into the *second rank* of that combat as part of a feint, moved to 2" away, and killed an Ogre *himself* with his spear... all of this at virtually 0 risk. He's certainly more of a support option now, than a head-on, "I will kill you all."

But then, Rend is also big. It's all about what you're looking to fight. Also, how much "+to hit" via raw modifiers or re-rolls are in your army? How much "+to wound"? That ought to affect your decision. Are you using predatory fighter?

Against meager infantry, I'd go with the all-purpose warblade. The Greatblade and Maul are about equal in power for bigger stuff, I'd think. For me, I like the war-spear.

 

[twistedmagpie]

Do you have to chose these at the beginning of the game or each combat round?

 

[pendrake]

Do you have to chose these at the beginning of the game or each combat round?

It does not explicitly say... ...and it really should. I think everyone has been going with choose prior to battle, but that is based on 8th edition habit, not anything I can remember reading in the new material.

How great would that be if the Stegadon could stow its fire-blast-blowpipes (or whatever they call them now) and switch over to the EoTG if that seemed more useful? Go, Go, Gadget Steggy!!

 

[Mr Phat]

Are you using predatory fighter?

Are you?
If you are refering to the Saurus Host batalion my answer is YES!
GAWD DAYWM It feels good with unbreaking saurus blocks!

 

[Mr Phat]

Do you have to chose these at the beginning of the game or each combat round?

Game I think.

 

[Ixt]

No no, although that battalion does kick serious butt. As for the Oldblood, our OB has gone from being "OLDBLOOD SMASH!!!" to "OB-Wan Ken-OB." He is wise, and strikes only at the right moment!

I meant Predatory Fighter. We still have it!

Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur,
"Command Ability
Saurian Savagery: The Scar-Veteran looses
an ear-splitting roar that drives nearby
saurus into a frenzy. If a Saurus Scar-
Veteran on Carnosaur uses this ability,
pick a Saurus unit within 15". Until your
next hero phase, whenever you roll a hit
roll of 6 or more for a model in that unit,
that model can immediately make one
additional attack using the same weapon."

Now, when you figure that a block of Saurus with spears is gonna get like 60 attacks at least.... those 6's.... combined with a BSB....

for... REROLLS... but then... the same for.... TEMPLE GUARD...!!??!

Saurus be like...

O_O

Saurus

Spoiler

<chris> - 20 Saurus Warriors w/ Spears, all in combat
<chris> rolls 20 dice, 3+ to hit, 4+ to wound, rerolling missed hits...
* 16 out of 20 dice hit (3+) = (6,6,5,5,5,5,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,3,3,3,2,2,1,1)
* Rerolling 4 dice: 4 out of 4 rerolled dice hit (3+) = (6,4,4,3)
* 10 out of 20 dice wound (4+) = (6,6,6,5,5,5,5,4,4,4,3,3,3,3,2,1,1,1,1,1)
* Amounting to 10 wounds.
<chris> - 3 6's
<chris> rolls 3 dice, 3+ to hit, 4+ to wound, rerolling missed hits...
* 1 out of 3 dice hit (3+) = (4,2,1)
* Rerolling 2 dice: 2 out of 2 rerolled dice hit (3+) = (5,4)
* 1 out of 3 dice wound (4+) = (6,3,3)
* Amounting to 1 wound.
<chris> - 11 wounds from weapons
<chris> - 2 bites each
<chris> rolls 40 dice, 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound, rerolling missed hits...
* 18 out of 40 dice hit (4+) = (6,6,6,6,5,5,5,5,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,3,3,3,3,3,3,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1)
* Rerolling 22 dice: 12 out of 22 rerolled dice hit (4+) = (6,6,6,6,6,5,5,5,5,5,4,4,3,3,3,3,2,2,1,1,1,1)
* 19 out of 30 dice wound (4+) = (6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,4,4,4,4,3,3,3,3,2,2,2,2,1,1,1)
* Amounting to 19 wounds.
<chris> - 9 6's
<chris> rolls 9 dice, 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound, rerolling missed hits...
* 1 out of 9 dice hit (4+) = (4,3,2,1,1,1,1,1,1)
* Rerolling 8 dice: 4 out of 8 rerolled dice hit (4+) = (6,5,5,4,3,3,3,3)
* 4 out of 5 dice wound (4+) = (6,6,6,5,2)
* Amounting to 4 wounds.
<chris> - 11 wounds from weapons, 23 wounds from bites
<chris> - 34 saves at 4+
<chris> rolls 34 dice, 4+ to save...
* 20 out of 34 dice save (4+) = (6,6,6,6,6,6,5,5,5,5,5,5,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,3,3,3,3,3,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1,1)
* Amounting to 20 saves, being 14 wounds.
<chris> - Assuming Bravery 8 in Battleshock...
* <chris> rolls a D6 = 5
<chris> - 5 + 1 (Stardrake) + 14 = 20 - 8 = 12 models flee, with 14 dying outright, causing 26 1-wound casualties in a single turn

Saurus get charged from behind and just kinda

Temple Guard, where only half make it in

Spoiler

<chris> - 20 Temple Guard charge, 10 make it into combat
<chris> rolls 20 dice, 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, rerolling missed hits...
* 13 out of 20 dice hit (3+) = (6,6,6,6,5,4,4,4,4,4,3,3,3,2,2,2,2,1,1,1)
* Rerolling 7 dice: 3 out of 7 rerolled dice hit (3+) = (6,5,3,2,2,1,1)
* 9 out of 16 dice wound (3+) = (6,5,5,5,4,4,3,3,3,2,2,2,1,1,1,1)
* Amounting to 9 wounds.
<chris> - 5 6's
<chris> rolls 5 dice, 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, rerolling missed hits...
* 4 out of 5 dice hit (3+) = (6,6,4,4,2)
* Rerolling 1 dice: 0 out of 1 rerolled dice hit (3+) = (2)
* 3 out of 4 dice wound (3+) = (5,4,3,2)
* Amounting to 3 wounds.
<chris> - 12 wounds, -1.
<chris> - Jaws
<chris> rolls 20 dice, 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound, rerolling missed hits...
* 13 out of 20 dice hit (4+) = (6,6,6,6,5,5,5,5,5,4,4,4,4,3,2,1,1,1,1,1)
* Rerolling 7 dice: 2 out of 7 rerolled dice hit (4+) = (6,5,3,3,2,1,1)
* 6 out of 15 dice wound (4+) = (6,6,6,6,6,5,3,3,3,2,2,1,1,1,1)
* Amounting to 6 wounds.
<chris> - 5 6's
<chris> rolls 5 dice, 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound, rerolling missed hits...
* 3 out of 5 dice hit (4+) = (6,4,4,3,3)
* Rerolling 2 dice: 0 out of 2 rerolled dice hit (4+) = (3,3)
* 2 out of 3 dice wound (4+) = (6,6,1)
* Amounting to 2 wounds.
<chris> - 8 wounds, no mod. 12 wounds, -1.
<chris> rolls 12 dice, 5+ to save...
* 3 out of 12 dice save (5+) = (6,5,5,4,4,3,2,2,2,2,2,1)
* Amounting to 3 saves, being 9 wounds.
<chris> rolls 8 dice, 4+ to save...
* 4 out of 8 dice save (4+) = (6,6,4,4,3,3,1,1)
* Amounting to 4 saves, being 4 wounds.
<chris> - 13 unsaved wounds caused by 10 Temple Guard.
<chris> - Battleshock against Bravery 8...
* <chris> rolls a D6 = 6
<chris> - 13 + 1 (Stardrake) + 6 = 20 - 8 = 12 flee
<chris> - 12 + 13 = 25 1-wound deaths from 10 Temple Guard
Opponent sees 10 Temple Guard in combat like

sees you rerolling like

but looks at the battle report later like

Temple Guard, where all make it in

Spoiler

<chris> - All 20 TG make i n
<chris> rolls 40 dice, 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, rerolling missed hits...
* 22 out of 40 dice hit (3+) = (6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,4,4,4,3,3,3,3,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1)
* Rerolling 18 dice: 13 out of 18 rerolled dice hit (3+) = (6,6,6,5,4,4,4,3,3,3,3,3,3,2,2,1,1,1)
* 20 out of 35 dice wound (3+) = (6,6,6,6,6,5,5,5,5,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,3,3,3,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1)
* Amounting to 20 wounds.
<chris> - 11 6's
<chris> rolls 11 dice, 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, rerolling missed hits...
* 6 out of 11 dice hit (3+) = (6,4,4,4,3,3,2,1,1,1,1)
* Rerolling 5 dice: 5 out of 5 rerolled dice hit (3+) = (6,5,4,4,3)
* 8 out of 11 dice wound (3+) = (6,6,5,5,4,3,3,3,1,1,1)
* Amounting to 8 wounds.
<chris> - 28 wounds (!!!!!!!!) at -1
<chris> rolls 40 dice, 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound, rerolling missed hits...
* 24 out of 40 dice hit (4+) = (6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,4,4,4,4,4,4,3,3,3,3,3,2,2,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1,1)
* Rerolling 16 dice: 6 out of 16 rerolled dice hit (4+) = (6,6,5,5,4,4,3,3,3,2,2,2,2,2,2,1)
* 8 out of 30 dice wound (4+) = (6,6,6,6,5,5,5,5,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,2,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1)
* Amounting to 8 wounds.
<chris> rolls 13 dice, 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound, rerolling missed hits...
* 6 out of 13 dice hit (4+) = (6,5,4,4,4,4,2,2,2,2,1,1,1)
* Rerolling 7 dice: 5 out of 7 rerolled dice hit (4+) = (6,5,5,4,4,3,2)
* 5 out of 11 dice wound (4+) = (6,5,5,5,5,3,3,3,3,2,1)
* Amounting to 5 wounds.
<chris> - 13 wounds at no mod
<chris> - 28 5+ saves
<chris> rolls 28 dice, 5+ to save...
* 11 out of 28 dice save (5+) = (6,6,6,6,6,5,5,5,5,5,5,4,3,3,3,3,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1)
* Amounting to 11 saves, being 17 wounds.
<chris> - 13 4+ saves
<chris> rolls 13 dice, 4+ to save...
* 6 out of 13 dice save (4+) = (6,6,5,5,4,4,3,3,3,2,2,2,1)
* Amounting to 6 saves, being 7 wounds.
<chris> - 24 unsaved wounds (!!!!!!!!!!!!)
<chris> - Battleshock
* <chris> rolls a D6 = 2
<chris> - 2 + 1 (Stardrake) + 24 = 27 - 8 = 15 models flee, 24 unsaved wounds, making 39 one-wound casualties

Temple Guard be like...

Opponent be looking at TG like...

but on the inside feels like

 

[Mr Phat]

Had a good laugh from that adorable lizard?

 

[Ixt]

Had a good laugh from that adorable lizard?

Ugh, god yes

 

[Mr Phat]

That "?" was supposed to be a ""

Picked up the phone while writting, so my thought-process must have swapped.

 

[Pinktaco]

Had a good laugh from that adorable lizard?

I immediately sent it to a friend and was like "this is my OB from 8th edition" and he was like "Dolan staph..."