8th Ed. VS. Dwarfs Strategy...Am I wasting my time?

[Suspicious Lizard]

Alright, so my friend and I play a bunch. He plays the dwarfs, and as we know in some ways they are the bane to our existence. They shoot us and pound us with war machines and magic denial. The last few games I have absolutely flopped on Winds of Magic generation, being lucky to get 4 or 5 dice, with him taking one, negating my Slanns plus 4 to the rolls with his plus 4 to dispells, and so on. He takes a lot of gear to try and stop my magic phase basically, and rightfully so, right?

Well I thought about changing it up. I want to bring an Ancient Steg with EotG, and instead of my slann being a general and fully equiped Old Blood on a carnosaur with Dwanstar, Tricksters Helm, Gold Sigil Sword (ASF) and hope he wastes a lot of points preparing for a Slann as usual and to catch him off gaurd.

The rest of my army is as follows:

2 x 25 Saurus w/ FC
2 x 8 Chameleons
1 Ancient Steg with EotG
10 Skink Skirmishers
1 Skink Chief on Terradon w/ Fencing Blades
2 Razordon Hunting Packs (I have just had so much better results than I have taking salamanders.

Am I wasting my time? Should I ride into battle with my general as a cowboy or stick him in a Saurus Block? He generally always takes the same :

1 Cannon
1 Grudge Thrower
~16 Thunderers
~30 GW Warriors (Horde)
~20 LBs w/ General riding Shield Bearers
~10 Slayers
1 Thane BSB

His chars pack a lot of magic denial, but my thinking is what if I brought EotGs which cannot be dispelled and pack a Old Blood with 5 attacks with the carnosaurs 5 attacks to catch him with his pants down? Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[n810]

I'd give the Slann-less combat oriented list, at least you will catch him off guard.
Try and take enough big stuff that he won't have any obvious targets to concentrate his firepower on.

 

[david l]

How many points is this? 1500? Those armies look small for 2k+.

If he has anti-magic, he must have a runesmith or two in his list as well. Dwarfs normally have +2 to dispel, although they tend to have a bunch of dispel dice. He cannot have better than +3 to dispel unless he takes a massively overpriced BSB banner. And if he takes that banner, his BSB will be relatively squishy in combat (4+ armour save, maybe 5+ ward, nothing else).

If going that route, I would absolutely take a second Ancient Stegadon as well as the Engine. He is going to kill at least one big monster before you get to combat, so give him more possible targets.

 

[Scalenex]

Your listed army has no runelords or runesmiths so it should be anti-magic free.

I find it boring, but the best way to fight dwarfs is often to starve them. Don't take ANY magic so all of his anti-magic goes to waste. Don't take any Steggies or Carnosaurs so his cannons don't net him as many points.

 

[Suspicious Lizard]

Thanks guys, yeah, I should have listed that he does take a runelord, whichever one is the one that rides on Shield Bearers. Scalenex, I was kind of worried someone would say I would need to win by attrition, one of these days I will have the $$ necessary to boost my core up. Thanks though guys, I appreciate it.

 

[Scalenex]

Runelords can't get shield bearers, only Dwarf Lords. So is he taking three characters? That's the only way he can have a BSB a rune wielder AND a guy with shield bearers. If he has a runelord on shield bearers he's cheating.

 

[Suspicious Lizard]

@Scalenex,

Yes, he took three chars....Rune wielder, Thane and Dwarf Lord. For any that care, we played today and trying to catch him off gaurd by taking an old blood instead of a Slann was a SUCCESS. Maybe this will stop him from blindly stacking so much into magic denial in the future. Also, Chamo Skinks succeeded in taking his organ guns turn 1, and my terradon engaged his quarrellers from a flank, so he had almost no shooting turn 1. I had a really cool picture of our battlefield right at the end of the first turn, but I can't figure out how to upload from my desktop to this forum, but thanks for the tips guys, and the encouragement. Its hard to find anything that works well vs the magic denial/shooty dwarfs. Eventually I will pick up some kroxigor though, saurus on their own have not been boding well as my only go-to melee stacks it seems. Thanks again!

 

[david l]

Yes, he took three chars....Rune wielder, Thane and Dwarf Lord.

Even with one runelord, he cannot have *that* much anti-magic. Dwarfs have +2 to dispel, the Runelord generates 2 extra dispel dice, he takes a rune that steals a power dice and makes a dispel dice. He can add 2 dispel scrolls on top of that (with option of destroying spell on 4+), but he cannot add further dice or bonuses to dispel rolls with those characters (except for the extreme BSB banner). Certainly the equivalent of 4 extra dispel dice and two scrolls is better magic defense than any other army can mount, but a Slann should be able to get a few spells through.

 

[n810]

This should help with posting pics.
http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/posting-images.1648/

 

[T`hinker`er]

Congrats on your victory! I have done this trick with Dwarfs as well and it works about half the time. Pick your fights - you can easily outmaneuver Dwarfs and outnumber them, at least "locally", where you decide to fight him. Take his army apart one piece at a time while holding up the rest. Sacrifice a lot of 10 man skink units and swarms to make this possible. And beware the Rune of Challenge - his best chance at screwing up your carefully laid plans.

Questions:

Why the Gold Sigil sword? Is initiative 10 really that helpful? I would think that if you wanted to re-roll misses you'd be better off with the ASF sword (sword of Swift Slaying), and focus on killing his RnF. I tend to favor the Obsidian blade, to eliminate the Dwarf AS altogether. Anyone have the math-hammer skills to comment on this?

On defense, I assume you meant that you take the Dawnstone (you wrote Dawnstar). You also take the Trickster's Helm. Do you think this is more effective than Glittering Scales? I get concerned with the Dwarf characters having a +1 WS over our Oldblood, but again, haven't math-hamemred it...

 

[Wiggus]

i quite like taking the pirahna blade and the bane head watching their face when you tell them the one qound you managed to sneak past has just been turned into four for often and instant kill i priceless. sometimes with the armour of destiny and shield for a 1+ 4*

 

[T`hinker`er]

I'm not sure if you can double wounds twice, but that sounds pretty nasty. The downside to the Bane head, and why I seldom take it, is that it makes your mission for that character very predictable. On the other hand, coupling Bane head with a Feedback Scroll against an Elf wizard is pure gold

Pirahna blade against a Dwarf Lord however...I don't know about this. You take a big risk that you do no wounds at all, since the Dwarf is likely to have a re-rollable 1+ save, Toughness 5, and possibly a ward save on top.

If you really want to turn your Oldblood into a "bane-headed Dwarf Lord assassin", and don't mind that your opponent is well aware of your intentions right from the start, then consider this: Glittering Scales with the Aura of Quetzl (he'll need 5's to hit you, 6's if he is a Thane) and then a simple double handed weapon - resulting in a nice -4 to his armor saves. I still lean more towards the Obsidian blade though, if I plan on going toe to toe with a Dwarf lord. I wish there was a good math-hammer spreadsheet out there to help with this kind of stuff, but then again there are so many variables...

On the other-other hand, in my group I find again and again that my opponents will do all they can to avoid going toe to toe with my characters, and try instead to get maximum combat res by killing my RnF. I've been wondering why I even bother to buy defensive items for my saurus characters, beyond the obligatory Dawnstone for the general. Considering this combo for my next game: Extra hand weapon, Maiming Shield and either Carnosaur pendant (or potion of strength, or Venom of the Firefly - depending on the opponent). Imagine 8 x S5 attacks against any race's RnF, all probably hitting on 3+, probably striking first...seems like he'd be able to tip almost any combat in your favor.

 

[Suspicious Lizard]

I hear you, Thinker. I am relatively new to this game. I guess my thinking was if I could hit first, I have a better chance at nabbing his general, which is the Dwarf Lord on Shield Bearers...he seems to always be able to stay even with me for a lot cheaper than what I spend, so I try to do a little better every time. Here is the image I wanted to upload, I killed his organ guns turn 1 where the red X's are with my cham skinks. Also, I was flanking his scouts with my terradon on the far right, which kept them from entering the building and bought me time to move with my exposed saurus into melee. Fun game!

 

[david l]

I guess my thinking was if I could hit first, I have a better chance at nabbing his general, which is the Dwarf Lord on Shield Bearers

If he knows how to build a Dwarf Lord, that won't matter - the Dwarf Lord will tank anything you can do with base strength. An easy to kill Dwarf Lord has a 1+ re-rollable armour save. With only strength 5 on your side, you need 18 hits to average a single wound. A tanky Dwarf Lord will be even harder to kill.

 

[n810]

I'm not sure if you can double wounds twice,...

Yep you can it's in the FAQ. 2x2=4.
(Parana blade + Bane head)


Here's my dwarf lord slaying build from the death match..

Itza-gana Hurtz

Saurus Oldblood (245 pts Total)


Saurus Oldblood, xxx pts
Piranha Blade, xx pts
Hide of the Cold Ones, xx pts
The Other Trickster's Shard, xx pts

 

[T`hinker`er]

Not sure I would trade the Dawnstone for +1T against a Dwarf who is likely hitting me at Str6. That re-rollable save is just too good, IMO. Of course if you must have your Oldblood on foot, I understand. I deploy in a CC unit, so cannon are less of a concern.

 

[Lawot]

Also, Thinker, you can't do Extra Hand Weapon + Maiming Shield. Not enough hands. And Venom won't affect the Maiming Shield attack.
But,

Oldblood
Sword of Bloodshed
Maiming Shield
Potion of Foolhardiness
light armor

...would give you 2+ armor, no ward...and 10 attacks for one round, 9 after that. Now that's a monster.

How about Blade of Tzunki, Armor of Fortune, shield? 1+/5++, S6 and his armor's no good?