7th Ed. Unit Strength of mixed Fear-causing units

[To-neh of LaTigra]

There was a discussion over at the Pyramid Vault about what US you count for outnumbering in combat for units of Salamanders/Razordons and the new Krox-skink unit.

many people said you only count the US of the Fear-causing models for the auto-break, but I was quick to point out that on page 50 of the main rule book, it state in the last paragraph, "Units in CC automatically fail their Break test if they are defeated by an enemy that they Fear and the combined US on the losing side is lower than the combined US of all Fear-causing *units* on the winning side."

Do Salamanders cause fear? Yes

Are the Salamanders and Skinks a sinlge unit? Yes

What is the US of a unit of 3 Salamanders packs(9 skinks, 3 Salamanders)? 18

So if we can agree that the above 3 statements are true, then why wouldn't a Salamander pack (which causes fear) count its entire US of 18 for outnumbering in combat since it is 1 unit, not a unit of Salamanders and a unit of Skinks.

We just could not come to an agreement on this matter as the book only deals with mixed units in the character section (pg 78). But these Fear-causing creatures are not characters, and thus you have to count their unit's US, not just that of the creatures. After all, Salamanders and skinks are not seperate units.

 

[Craken]

The Salamder Hunting pack and the skinks could as one unit, thus the whole unit causes fear, unless the salamanders are killed then they just become skinks and lose fear. So for outnumber you count the whole unit.

 

[kroxigor01]

It is clearly RAW that the US of the whole unit would be used but I would never play it that way.

I believe the phrase "... and the combined US on the losing side is lower than the combined US of all Fear-causing units on the winning side." was intended to read "... and the combined US on the losing side is lower than the combined US of all Fear-causing models on the winning side."

 

[To-neh of LaTigra]

Unfortunely, we can't play a game on speculation. If GW meant *models*, they should say *models*. I believe GW meant units and the sentence on page 50 is supposed to clarify situation in which multiple units are involved.

For example, a Lizardman player wins a combat with a unit of Saurus and a unit of Salamanders. The enemy is subject to fear and outnumbered, but only if the Salamander unit outnumber them will they auto-break.

 

[didleoman]

if they roll two 1s for insane courage then they don't auto break and stay in combat

 

[maaksel]

They would break. Adding in a mounted OB in saurus would make that unit cause fear.

Its a great tool to prevent auto-break from fear causers.


There are many items out there that 'wearer causes terror' - the UNIT will cause terror for charge reactions etc, but you would measure from the bearer for the 6".

 

[Cpeerson2000]

I'd wait for the new book to come out before making speculations how the Skink/Kroxigor unit will work out. We could assume that the whole unit causes fear or the unit is pretty much a Skink shield for the Kroxigors only 30 days till we find out.

 

[To-neh of LaTigra]

Adding a Character that causes fear does not make the whole unit cause fear. Check out page 78 in the BRB. For most purposes, the unit is immune to fear and if the enemy will contact the fear-causing model, then they test for fear.

But when calculating Fear-causing units, the Character is counted as a seperate unit in combat, and would thus not outnumber for auto-break.

Krox/skink units would outnumber since you can't count US for the Krox and ignore the rest of their unit.