8th Ed. Unit Sizes

[Hookadoodle]

Are spears better in 8x4 or 10 x 3?
What is a good unit size for skinks/ skirmishers?

 

[Ilnar3]

10x3, but only as they can all attack,
You can always reform at the end of combat to keep your two ranks remember

 

[Kurlin]

If you run 10x3 there is no reason to use spears, as the third rank can attack regardless.

 

[Ilnar3]

No, but you get 2 extra attacks for being front rank rather than supporting,

 

[jormi_boced]

No, but you get 2 extra attacks for being front rank rather than supporting,

What? There would be no benifite to spears in 10x3, you might as well run them with HW/sheild to get the parry ward and save points.

 

[Ilnar3]

Until you reform to 5x3/4 to hold stubborn.

Better defense from cannon too

 

[Hookadoodle]

So taking 8x4 would be useless
Should i increase the unit size to a 10 x 4?

 

[Scarecrow]

So taking 8x4 would be useless
Should i increase the unit size to a 10 x 4?

10X3 is already almost 400 pts adding another 10 saurus would be ridiculous. I'd stick with the 10x3 at max.

 

[Scarecrow]

10x3, but only as they can all attack,
You can always reform at the end of combat to keep your two ranks remember

I don't think you can reform the regiment during combat, it's an out of combat movement only. Too chaotic during combat to pull it off.

No, but you get 2 extra attacks for being front rank rather than supporting,

Nope. What spears do is allow you to get ONE supporting attack from the third rank in addition to the regular attack from the second rank. But if you field a unit in ranks of 10 then you get an extra rank or supporting attacks with hand weapon and shield, so up to three ranks. Now if you fielded the unit in a 10x4 you could use spears and still get an extra rank of supporting attacks.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Ilnar3]

It does, bit that wasn't my point,
8 frontage wide gives 16 attacks,
10 frontage wide gives 20 attacks, saurus work best in the widest possible frontage, to maximize those 2A
Page 55 combat reform, if won combat, or passed leadership, unto can reform,
So starting as wide as possible to maximize attacks, then reforming to a smaller frontage after casualties to hold stubborn,

 

[strewart]

Remember when going 10 wide though that it is an extremely wide unit, make sure there is an opponent unit nearly as wide as well so you can actually use all those attacks.

As mentioned, 10x3 spears is useless since when you go 10 wide the third rank can attack anyway, might as well stick with HW and shield. If you do reform after the first round, remember that you actually need to hold in that first round. You will likely have one less rank than your opponent, and they will quite possibly get +1 for charging too. Still maybe I am underestimating the amount of damage saurus can put out.

And don't forget as well with 10x3, that every casualty you lose to shooting and magic and even combat means less attacks to strike back, which weakens the unit.

 

[Hookadoodle]

Well i have 32 spears whats the best unit size for then lol (what by what)

 

[msinosic]

Also remember that with a Combat Reform you can not take models out of a fighting position. If you are 10x3 and all 10 models are able to attack you can not reform to a smaller frontage.

 

[Scarecrow]

It does, bit that wasn't my point,
8 frontage wide gives 16 attacks,
10 frontage wide gives 20 attacks, saurus work best in the widest possible frontage, to maximize those 2A
Page 55 combat reform, if won combat, or passed leadership, unto can reform,
So starting as wide as possible to maximize attacks, then reforming to a smaller frontage after casualties to hold stubborn,

I stand corrected. That's pretty damn awesome! But now the problem would be getting dueled charged. Against skaven, I don't see that being much of a problem but against O&G getting dueled charged could be bad.

Yes a 10 wide gets 20 attacks (21 w/champ). Add 3 ranks and you're looking at 41 attacks. That is if all of them get to fight.

 

[Scarecrow]

Well i have 32 spears whats the best unit size for then lol (what by what)

A 5x5 or a 5x4 is quite nice. Or what you could do is a 6x5. Large enough frontage that you can maximize attacks while restricting your enemies chance to duel charge. Maybe or maybe not give them spears (since spears are one handed saurus still get the armor bonus for shields right?). Also it gives you enough ranks that there is a possibility that you might get steadfast, but I generally leave that to hoards and those lesser races with lower leadership.

 

[strewart]

If I was going to field a unit of 30, I think 6x5 would be a pretty good number. 7x4 with a couple extra to absorb casualties might not be too bad either.

I'm thinking with the cost of saurus though, 5x5 might be the way to go. I have only really tested my elves in 8th ed so far though so I am speaking from theory not practice. You need to balance up between a large unit and the effective cost of the unit, when you are pulling around 30 saurus it costs a LOT of points and there are things like purple sun that will still eat through them with no trouble.

At this stage, I would say try the size you think would be best for your strategies and report back how it works so we can start to get an idea of what does and doesn't go well. I'm thinking so far that the true hordes like Skaven and goblins, even empire, will be very very hard to beat. That steadfast is simply amazing, and it is difficult now that oyu need at least a rank to pull off a successful flank charge and negate theirs.

 

[Kurlin]

At this stage, I would say try the size you think would be best for your strategies and report back how it works so we can start to get an idea of what does and doesn't go well. I'm thinking so far that the true hordes like Skaven and goblins, even empire, will be very very hard to beat. That steadfast is simply amazing, and it is difficult now that oyu need at least a rank to pull off a successful flank charge and negate theirs.

Skaven are very hard to beat now. They can just throw big units of slaves at you to tar pit you. Strength in Numbers along with steadfast is just crazy good, no need to even be near the general for the most part with LD10 slaves. then they can just fire into combat, or get a flank on you.

 

[oreaper84]

for the maximum effiency point for point i run units 6 wide. a lagrge frontage leaves the opportunity for wasted front rank which equals wasted points. Remember there are tarpit units on 20's i a 5 wide formation that will, even when optimized, only allow for less than 2/3 of your front rank to swing. 4 sauras picking thier scales, plus the ranks behingd them. Low int will cause casualties, but not enough to justify the extra points spent on a massive unit. point for point, i pick 6 wide with spears

 

[Ilnar3]

You can choose to have them in other choices especially if here's no horde to go up against , but 10 x3 is the best in terms of the number of attacks you get and it means cannons ect can't kill more than 3

 

[Kurlin]

You can choose to have them in other choices especially if here's no horde to go up against , but 10 x3 is the best in terms of the number of attacks you get and it means cannons ect can't kill more than 3

While it may be the best in particular situations, it is not the default best. Perhaps the cannon wouldn't have line of sight on your unit if it wasn't 10 wide. and 10 wide units are extremely unwieldy to move. They also make it harder for your units to be nearby. Sure you can reform, but after that you may no longer be in range of BSB or your general.

If you want to talk pure numbers then running 30x1 would be the best, but it is far from ideal.