8th Ed. Trying to understand these Lizardmen lists...

[syypher]

Hi everyone! Thanks so much for all your help so far with helping a new Liz general on his feet.

I've been looking at a lot of the tournament circuit top Lizardmen lists and they actually revolve very closely to my "support skink" heavy list I was thinking of running.

My List with heavy skink support: http://www.lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7453&p=58176#p58176

Now..I got to ask..I am a previous Warriors of Chaos player and having only 2 CC units (1 Saurus unit and 1 TG unit) is really weird for me. How do these types of list play on the table? I see 2 CC units with above average core stats but nothing "special" really for taking on the entire army by themselves.

What is the purpose of all the skinks? I know they are awesome because of their low cost + redirecting capabilities. Also the Chamo skinks are great at taking out WMs and monsters. The regular rank & file skinks are cheap redirecters too.

Where is the killing power though? Will the weight of all the skinks be able to crush the opponents? Please help me understand the list playstyle and goal. There's got to be something going on right with them if they are constantly placing high with this type of list.

Appreciate your advice!

 

[cyanhawk]

The killing power of your infantry is in your saurus and the temple guard if you use them. Saurus are str 4 with 2 attacks, temple guard str 5 with 2 attacks. They can stand toe to toe with almost any infantry unit in the game and come out on top.

Your saurus/TG blocks are the anvils of your army, toughness 4 with a 4+ in cc is pretty hard to kill. Once they have something tied up you flank in with you stegadons or salamanders or CoC. All that combined should win you a fight.

Of course they are also one of the best magic armies in the game thanks to the slann. Flesh to stone has toughness 6 infantry models. Wyssans wildform gives you str 5 toughness 5 etc etc.

Overall I like to think of lizardman and the elf armies as being very comparable. You can win alot of fights on your own, but you really need to put together the combos (charges/magic/etc) to win.

The skinks/salamanders/terradons are just there to slow the enemy down and pick off some models when they can, but don't underestimate poison.

 

[parrot]

Just like cyanhawk said. Saurus are more to stop the enemy not to kill them. If you want to use your saurus to kill on their own you need to boost them with the lore of light for higher WS and for I or ASF. And equip them with spears to make more attacks.

 

[syypher]

Just like cyanhawk said. Saurus are more to stop the enemy not to kill them. If you want to use your saurus to kill on their own you need to boost them with the lore of light for higher WS and for I or ASF. And equip them with spears to make more attacks.

So then where is the Killing power mostly coming from? Since everything seems to just be for wittling them down in those types of list. Is that how the list plays? Wittle them down slowly?

 

[n810]

Well what was your strategy with your Warriors of Chaos army ?
You know, so we can see where you are coming from.

 

[parrot]

For the killing power I use CoC but stegadons and salamenders are also very good at it.

 

[syypher]

Well what was your strategy with your Warriors of Chaos army ?
You know, so we can see where you are coming from.

Well its a primary CC army. Even the HC. So pretty much strategically march forward, not exposing flanks and getting into CC on turn 3 and destroying whatever I got into combat wit/ multi charged. All while my Knights flank around a table edge and my warhounds redirect in front of my Warriors or go WM hunting. HC's protect my flanks from any flankers, and they usually kill any flankers as well because of how deadly they are. All while my magic disables my opponents magic phases and takes out some #'s

That's my strategy "usually" with WoC. But ofcourse it alwyas changes every game depending but thats it generally.

 

[Taipan]

Now..I got to ask..I am a previous Warriors of Chaos player and having only 2 CC units (1 Saurus unit and 1 TG unit) is really weird for me. How do these types of list play on the table? I see 2 CC units with above average core stats but nothing "special" really for taking on the entire army by themselves.

We pay a lot for our close-combat infantry, and they're the only real worthwhile ones left after the changes 8th edition brought to list design, requirements etc. Even in a full 3k list, you're only going to see 2 blocks of Saurus and 2 blocks of Temple Guard (assuming Double Slann, if not then only one TG block like normal). We just don't have the ability to spam like other armies can.

What is the purpose of all the skinks? I know they are awesome because of their low cost + redirecting capabilities. Also the Chamo skinks are great at taking out WMs and monsters. The regular rank & file skinks are cheap redirecters too.

Skinks kill high Toughess monsters that Saurus can't handle on their own, and get in the way of enemy formations/re-direct charges. Thats all they're good for basically, because Gnoblars beat them in close-combat and like with Saurus taking massive units doesn't make up for their individual worthlessness. 10-man with blowpipes is pretty much ideal.

Where is the killing power though? Will the weight of all the skinks be able to crush the opponents? Please help me understand the list playstyle and goal. There's got to be something going on right with them if they are constantly placing high with this type of list.

Our magic. Read the rules for Slann and you'll see why. Loremaster, free power dice added to every casting attempt, remove 6's from enemy Wizard's casting rolls, Magic Resistance 3...and then of course there is Cupped Hands. If the frog miscasts, he gets to (once per game) instead send the miscast to an enemy Wizard in LOS.
With Light magic, our Saurus and Temple Guard stop being lackluster and rip face. With Shadow magic, Slann can nuke entire units, make them weak as water when trying to hurt Saurus, or even make Saurus and Temple Guard S8 in combat. Life magic makes T8 Temple Guard possible, and regen of casualties and miscast protection. Etc etc.

Well its a primary CC army. Even the HC. So pretty much strategically march forward, not exposing flanks and getting into CC on turn 3 and destroying whatever I got into combat wit/ multi charged. All while my Knights flank around a table edge and my warhounds redirect in front of my Warriors or go WM hunting. HC's protect my flanks from any flankers, and they usually kill any flankers as well because of how deadly they are. All while my magic disables my opponents magic phases and takes out some #'s

Lizardmen play pretty much the same. We probably have a bit more shooting than that kind of army (due to Salamanders and Skinks), but primarily we also march into enemy gunlines and eat them, whilst supported by magic.