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8th Ed. Trouble vs Ogres

eppe
Kroxigor

eppe

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I’ve now played 2 games of Warhammer Fantasy, and lost both miserably. I’ve played against Vampire Counts (which was a decent game) and Saturday night I played against Ogre Kingdom and got destroyed. We are playing at 1K atm but are going up to 1500 next month. My only concern with moving up is that I am worried about adding more variables to my army when it still feels like I lack the basic foundation of tactics.

I’m going to go over the OK battle because I think it’s likely to occur again.

I was using 2 blocks of 5X3 spear Saurus Warriors and one had a Scar Vet. I also had 2 Sallies, 2 groups of 11 Skirmishers, one with a priest, and 1 group of 6 chameleons. Now the good, I love chameleons. In the first round they took down a sabertusk which made me happy. I did “better” but not great with my skinks over last game. The group with my priest in it was out of position and unable to do much magic.

My major issue is that due to the high str of OK the Saurus Warriors just crumble. I think I’m going to up my Saurus block to 29 with the Vet to make it 5X6. However should I consider dropping spears for hand weapons to increase their chances of living against the Ogres?
 
I would take HW and shield for sure. It will give them a 4+ (IIRC) and a 6+ save (from the parry). Running them 5x6 or even 6x5 is the way to go. Put a scar vet in there to dish out damage. Accept challenges with the unit champion. Crown of command will make the unit hold as well.

Against Ogres, poison shots are the best way to handle most of the army. They are hard to out maneuver though because they have the same movement as the skinks.

When you move up to 1500pts, you can take a slann and make him the bsb with Lore of LIfe. The slann will help your units hold within 12 inches. Some Temple Guard (even just 10) will allow the slann to get into the midst of the battle and do some real damage.

Chameleons are really good for getting first turn shooting as well. They work like the skirmishers should work. On the skirmishers, I always take the javelin and shield as I like to get up close, fire once, and then stand and shoot on the charge.

With Ogres, you want to avoid those charges if possible. make him run around chasing your skirmishing units. It will drive him nuts too.
 
definitely up the saurus block. Other than that you can add in some salamanders. Ogres dont have great leadership and have low armor. One good template should cause a couple wounds and a panic test. Salamanders are also useful against the VC.

Get a skink priest in there. Even if he only takes the signature spell from heavens thats a minus 1 to hit and leadership for the ogre block of your choice.

I've found razordons to be fairly effective against ogres lots of str 4 shots, but they are less effective against many other opponents.

Honestly if you combine the two saurus blocks you have now into one block and then add in a smaller 5x3 type support block to flank charge you will be ok.

I find that LM scale up better than ogres do. A saurus warrior and an ogre are pretty equal in close combat. and you get 3 saurus for every one ogre.

I dont use spears personally, I prefer the parry save. Thats all personal preference though.


Ive only played one game against the new ogre book at 2500 points and I tabled him by turn 4 with my LM. Razordons paid for themselves a couple times over. two blocks of 30 saurus warriors did the rest. Also if you want you can field a solo slann and give him shadow magic. Shadow absolutely destroys ogres.
 
I missed that. I did have 2 Salamanders. I had them seperate. OK went first and was able to attack and panic 1 sallie from his Lead Belcher attack. The other Salamander got 1 shot off before it got paniced and the flame cleared the Ogres completely.

I rolled terrible too. I failed almost every leadership test and didn't get a single spell off. 11 skinks did 1 wound to a Sabertusk.
 
I admit that I have very limited experience against Ogres, but it seems like they are the one army that Salamanders would not do well against. Since the ogres' bases are so large, you will only get a few under the flame template so the number of hits will be minimized. Plus, you will have to kill an ogre to force a panic check and getting 3 wounds on max 5-6 Str 3 hits seems very unlikely. So their low leadership will probably never come into play. Sure they can devestate some Gnoblars, but what can't.

I think this is one of the few cases where Razordons may outperform Sallys.
 
you dont have to kill an ogre to cause a panic test, you just have to cause a wound. You auto hit, then have to wound on 5+ then -3 armor to their 5+ save. one template should hit almost every ogre if its placed right. You are bound to cause one wound. Then they have to panic test on a mediocre leadership.

Razordons BS of 3 means you are rolling most likely 5+ to hit maybe 4+, then a 4+ to wound then -1 to their 5+ save. Still bound to cause at least one wound, but no automatic panic test.

As I mentioned in my post my 2x2 packs of razordons absolutely wrecked the ogre army I played. I rolled doulbe 10's for 3 straight turns with one pack of the dons. That probably wont happen again. In general I'll take auto hit over rolling to hit pretty much any day of the week.
 
Read the fine print in the salamander rules,
you have to cause a casualty.
So you need to do at least 3 wounds for a panic test.
Providing one wasn't allready wounded.
 
blah reading. My arch enemy. I shall remember to re-read it when I go home tonight.
 
When only running 2 Salamanders should I keep them as seperate units or grouped? It seems like grouping them, especially against Ogres, would be the best bet.
 
If you run your Slann Lore of Life, Dwellers is Nasty Against Ogres, yes they are high Str but since dwellers kills out right with no save even killing 1 or 2 of his multi-wound models hurts him big time.

Purple Sun is a good Ogre ender, but if you roll badly can be a Slann Swallower as well. :)
 
Good point on the salamanders. Causalty required.

Sounds like tons of skinks for those poison shots is the way to go. And saurus units wider then the ogre units for the extra attacks.
 
As long as you are charging and not being charged a 6 wide saurus block is all you should need. Saurus are very effective against ogres.

For lore I am a huge fan of Shadow. Signature spell lowers ws and initiative, two others lower str and toughness, Okhams gives you str 8 saurus. Pit of shades is there nemesis just as much as it is our nemesis.

For the most part anything that is effective against lizards has a pretty good chance of being effective against ogres.
 
+1 on taking Shadows.

As an Ogre player myself, nothing is more terrifying than a Shadow Slann. The whole lore is designed to murder Ogres, and Pit of Shades won't backfire like Purple Sun. Every spell gives you a valuable tool against them.

Until you get enough points for a Slann though, skink harassment, heavy saurus blocks, and Iceshard Blizzard are your best friends. A stegadon makes for a nice flank charge as well, just keep him away from the Ironguts.

As far as salamanders, if you're going to run them there's no great advantage to placing the two together. If you want to fire both shots at one unit you still can, but keeping them separate gives you a choice, and a lot more maneuverability. As stated earlier though, Ogres are about the only army that salamanders don't perform well against.
 
I thought you had to decide your lore before you know who you're going to be playing?
 
You do have to pick the lore during army creation now. Honestly though, Shadow is a very impressive lore no matter who you are facing. The debuffs it has are awesome, and who doesnt love str 8 saurus or even str 6 skinks if necessary.

I love throwing a small skrox unit into the flank of someone and then hitting it with okhams.
 
cyanhawk said:
You do have to pick the lore during army creation now. Honestly though, Shadow is a very impressive lore no matter who you are facing. The debuffs it has are awesome, and who doesnt love str 8 saurus or even str 6 skinks if necessary.

I love throwing a small skrox unit into the flank of someone and then hitting it with okhams.
Click to expand...

I assume lore selection only then really applies to Tourney play? I guess it's an etiquette question. When playing just friendly games do you let your opponent see your army list, and lore, prior to the start of the game? Like just before deployment or the day prior?
 
BRB is pretty clear that you pick the lore at army creation. I would take a dim view of someone who switched lores upon seeing what army I was playing.

Hinge

PS That is what makes Shadow such a dominate lore. It is effective against every army out there.
 
Hinge said:
BRB is pretty clear that you pick the lore at army creation. I would take a dim view of someone who switched lores upon seeing what army I was playing.

Hinge

PS That is what makes Shadow such a dominate lore. It is effective against every army out there.
Click to expand...


According to the new FAQ Teclis can now choose his Lore after the start of the game but before turn 1.
 
According to the new FAQ Teclis can now choose his Lore after the start of the game but before turn 1.
Click to expand...

Teclis is a twat . . . that is all.

I don't quite understand how the slann are supposed to be the most capable mages in the world but our choices for special mage slann characters sucks so bad. Of course I dont understand how we get stuck with all of our overpriced worthless special characters and most other army books have gotten sir killsalot the awesome slayer of all things for approximately 10 points.
 
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