8th Ed. to take 11or 16 Temple guard

[xisor]

Hi all, this will be my first game usaing temple guard and is 2000 points vs a mainly goblin list. would you take 11 TG or 16 the extra 80 points would sure come in handy somewhere else and im thinking i dont really want my slann in cc anyway do i?.

 

[Xul]

take a salamander + 1 handler for the 80 pts. that will do the goblins good

 

[xisor]

thats what i thought to be honest. 11 temple guard gives me 3 ranks so i think thats plenty for a unti thats gonna sit out of the way and cast spells. at the end of the day i see my tg as just an emergency protection for my slann if anything breaks through

 

[strewart]

Against goblins, yeah I guess 11 would work and the 80 points going into a salamander would definitely be well spent.

However, in general I think you have the idea of TG a little off, and will be disappointed with their part in your army if you think of them as a last line of defence for your Slann. If you really don't want him anywhere near combat, consider just taking the ethereal ability and 2+ ward vs shooting and running him alone, to save even more points.

TG are monsters in combat, and with the Slann their unbreakableness is awesome, you definitely do want the unit in combat. Just not in a risky combat, you want either a reasonably easy target, or to have support nearby, or a big unit that you can just hold up and whittle down for a while. Your lads won't be going anywhere until they're basically destroyed, and the Slann can't be touched until you have lost most of the unit, plus he can still cast pretty much all spells except magic missiles from combat. If you are paying for all those Temple Guard, they make a good anvil in combat not a good last line of defence to hold back from combat.

 

[Ilnar3]

He can cast magic missiles....

Usually hard to find something to cast at though,

 

[xisor]

ok i have just finsihed my list and have some points left so will up the tg to 16 and get them into combat, my list is as follows:

Slann (bsb)- rumination, cupped hands, curse charm of tepok
16 temple guard- champ + std

scar vet - GW, hide of the old ones
19 Saurus- Std, champ

Skink priest - lvl 2, dispel scroll, plaque of tepok
10 skink skirmishers

26 Skinks - 1 kroxigor, std , mus

25 Skinks - std, mus

6 Chameleons

6 Chameleons

10 Skink skirmishers

10 Skinks (suicide squad to march up and release fanatics)

Salamander + 4 crew

Salamander + 4 crew

This all comes to 1970 so still have 30 points spare, any feedback on list would be great and also where to put the last 30 points. As you can probably tell i dont have the new rule book yet so im using only armies book items.

 

[Xul]

I would add a musician to the saurus block. the new Swift reform rule is great for lizards. I would also drop the 10 skinks suicide squad - just have your salamanders shoot the suspicious goblin units and cause panic (1 wound from salamander attack is enough to force the panic test). when they panic, the fanatics are lost. with those 50 pts freed up, u have 80 to spend. that's another salamander, for example. to get the pts for the saurus musician, u can drop 1 skink from the priest's unit.
and I would be careful about the Hide of the old ones - lizards are cold blooded, but I've seen my cavalry stop in their tracks several times due to stupidity. I wouldn't like my main close combat block being stupid and taking that risk...and lastly, I would probably swap that 25 skink unit for another krox in the other unit + something else. or combine with the other skink unit - could be a nice steadfast block, although 50 is maybe too many...

 

[Arli]

I didn't know that fanatics were lost when their unit fled. Is that in their special rules? Just curious.

 

[xisor]

with regards to the hide of the old ones my slann will be nearby also giving a reroll on the stupidity check with the new rules, i wouldnt have taken it before then. i only have 2 salamander models or would prolly taken another one. why would the saurus want the musician as i said im new to army so need all the help i can get but not sure what situation my saurus would benefit from the musician. i know about causing panic tests with sallys to kill off the fanatics but problem is with rerolls on tests from bsb they likely to stand and then release fanatics onto my salamanders which i dont want. i was thinking 50 points isnt a lot to charge up the middle and it can even march and throw javs when it gets closer

 

[Xul]

I didn't know that fanatics were lost when their unit fled. Is that in their special rules? Just curious.

yes, the Orcs & goblins book, page 25. if the concealing unit flees, unreleased fanatics are lost.

 

[Xul]

with regards to the hide of the old ones my slann will be nearby also giving a reroll on the stupidity check with the new rules, i wouldnt have taken it before then. i only have 2 salamander models or would prolly taken another one. why would the saurus want the musician as i said im new to army so need all the help i can get but not sure what situation my saurus would benefit from the musician. i know about causing panic tests with sallys to kill off the fanatics but problem is with rerolls on tests from bsb they likely to stand and then release fanatics onto my salamanders which i dont want. i was thinking 50 points isnt a lot to charge up the middle and it can even march and throw javs when it gets closer

check the 8th rulebook on page 95 - the description of the musician is there - changed quite significantly since 7th. in my opinion the most interesting new rule is the Swift reform, which allows your unit to reform and make a normal move (not march) if you have a musician and if you pass a LD test. check the book for details.

 

[JohnMavrick]

u can drop 1 skink from the priest's unit.

Minimum unit for a skink skirmisher unit is ten, can't drop any more.

and I would be careful about the Hide of the old ones - lizards are cold blooded, but I've seen my cavalry stop in their tracks several times due to stupidity. I wouldn't like my main close combat block being stupid and taking that risk...

I definately can concur with this. While it is unusual for you to fail a stupidity check I had a big 3K game which was the deciding battle to close a campaign between me and a dwarf gunline. I failed no less than three stupidity checks, two back to back at a critical moment.

However if you keep the unit close to your BSB Slann you shouldn't have to worry too much. Rerollable leadership 9 is, theoretically, gonna succeed more often then not. LoL

I would probably swap that 25 skink unit for another krox in the other unit + something else. or combine with the other skink unit - could be a nice steadfast block, although 50 is maybe too many...

Skink Cohort units are the new thing in 8th edition. While there were a couple of players whom were...steadfast...in their belief that the unit was worthwhile in 7th, they have really come into their own in this new edition. Adding another kroxigor and upping the size of your unit to around 30ish skinks will be quite a block. Especially if you have your Slann w/ the the lore of Life near by to increase their toughness and defenses.

 

[kroxigor01]

I know that you have specified you are mostly fighting goblins but you need to be wary of high burst damage units in this edition.

Eg. High Elf Star Dragon. 6 S7 attacks, 2D6 S7 breath hits, D6 S7 stomp and the Princes attacks. Even if the Prince only has a lance, that is ~15 dead temple guard on average. Game over. This is an extreme example I know, but things like this can be done in this edition.

 

[xisor]

i appreciate all the advice thnx, i have added a couple of skinks to each cohort unit and now have a krox in each for a bit of a kick. now my saurus unit and both skrox units will cause fear, is the only advantage to fear the reduced WS or do they still need to pass a Ld test before they can charge me?

with regards to the high impact units im not too sure as to how to guard against that although i would ussually take a chief on a steg with the spear for a similar thing myself but against goblins theres too many bolt throwers,doom divers and rock lobbers around for me to take a steg

 

[JohnMavrick]

If your opponent throws down the star dragon of death you must guard your TG/Slann at all costs. Whittle it down using all the shooting and magic you can muster. The nice thing for you is that your opponent has put half his army into that single model so if you take it down you've almost assuredly won the game save getting the rest of your army eatten before the end of turn six.

 

[Bibamus]

or, you know, 25% wich is the max he can spend for a lord. even if you get rid of that dragon you have to worry about the rest of 75% of his army. not to mention that if he can afford a prince on a star dragon he can also add 1 or 2 dragon mages. thats 3 dragons to worry about and half an army

 

[Tlaloc of Xhotl]

Eg. High Elf Star Dragon. 6 S7 attacks, 2D6 S7 breath hits, D6 S7 stomp and the Princes attacks. Even if the Prince only has a lance, that is ~15 dead temple guard on average. Game over. This is an extreme example I know, but things like this can be done in this edition.

Hmm, I need to work out the math of this if he charged my planned unit of TG + Lore of Light Slann.
TG with Armour pierce banner, Speed of Light and Birona's Timewarp.

If they all got to attack I think thats 23 S5 attacks hitting on 3s, rerolling misses
20 S5 hits with -3 to armour save? against the dragon thats looking to be maybe 7 or 8 wounds

How many models can you fit in base to base contact with a dragon?

 

[Bibamus]

4 models. your math is correct assuming you get those 2 spells off. the problem with the lore of light is that you need those 2 spells and your opponent knows it, so he'll throw every dispell dice at it and let everything else pass. also, you only get 1 misscast protection via cupped hands, after that, you need to be really lucky to get the spells off. you're safer with +4 T and regen on the TG



edit: typo

 

[strewart]

I definately can concur with this. While it is unusual for you to fail a stupidity check I had a big 3K game which was the deciding battle to close a campaign between me and a dwarf gunline. I failed no less than three stupidity checks, two back to back at a critical moment.

One point to keep in mind, a change from 7th to 8th ed. Before, compulsory moves (stupidity) went before charges, now they come after. So when you want to get that critical charge off, you won't fail anymore due to stupidity.

 

[kroxigor01]

The best way to avoid the dragon bomb: make sure your have a champion/hero in the unit is still alive to challenge.

You still eat the flame and stomp (so lose maybe ~9 + the challenger), but you will at least survive.

Overall Life is a great stop gap for this potential problem. T8 is fantastic. With that up the dragon can hope for maybe ~6 kills without a challenge.