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7th Ed. To Spear, or not to Spear? That is the question.

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Lord Ryba Oujak

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I'm just getting into Lizardmen, and need some advice on a particularly prickly proposition: should I give my Saurus warriors spears?

The cost doesn't seem too large (coming from Warriors of Chaos and their fiendishly expensive weapon upgrades) to equip them with spears, however the loss of armor save does seem to hurt their performance by giving up ACR. :shifty:

My Saurus are missing arms over this. Your opinions please.....
 
Heh, love the corny puns. :P

The general consensus is that in this edition of the book, spears are most definitely worth it on saurus warriors. There is no predatory fighter rule anymore, this means that every model in the second rank gets 2 attacks now rather than one, this gives you an amazing 21 s4 attacks (inc. champ, assuming 5 wide) when you aren't charging. That kind of offense cannot be ignored.

Also compared to the last edition, saurus warrior get an additional scaly skin save for no extra cost when it used to cost per model. And remember that if you go with spears, when you reach combat you can always choose to just use hand weapons for the armour bonus instead if you think it will be more valuable. If you just take hand weapons you have no choice.

Welcome to the forum! :)
 
Thanks strewart ,
I was thinking along those lines, just undecided on what to end up with (glue is a mostly permenet thing). The option to switch between spears and HW+shield is worth the extra point per model, for versitility at the least. Glad you like my puns, just couldn't resisit it! :D
 
It is also possible (there are not many places that wouldn't accept this) to assemble half one way and half the other, and make the front two ranks the option that you are taking. This is useful for lots of units but there really isn't much of a reason not to take spears unless you only have a 10-12 man flanking unit that would be served better by AS than spears when they expect to only fight in a round they charge anyway.

I am notorious among my friends and gf for coming out with terrible puns all the time, I have even resorted to calling myself the punisher sometimes, so none will pass me by without a grin. :P
 
I'd say give them the spears, all those extra attacks are well worth it in my opinion.
 
Model them with spears, if you want to say they only have HW and not pay for spears that is fine, you just tell your oponent before the game.
 
Has anyone ever had any luck modeling up their saurus holding spears but having hand weapons slung or sheathed to represent the option still being there?
 
Sounds like a heavy amout of converting considering that most of the HWs will have hand wrapped around them. To use those, you'd have to cut the and out and GS the handle in. Not sure it's worth it unless you're a hardcore modeler.
 
Barotok said:
Sounds like a heavy amout of converting considering that most of the HWs will have hand wrapped around them. To use those, you'd have to cut the and out and GS the handle in. Not sure it's worth it unless you're a hardcore modeler.
Click to expand...

Might be easier to obtain some separate hand weapons. I'm sure there's something like that out there.
 
One of the sarus units that I am working on, killed some chaos warriors. Lizardmen don't usually loot bodies of their kill (from what I've read), but these guys seemed to find use for the swords off the WoC. Although they're not strapped to their bodies, they do convert nicely. Perhaps splicing a weapon handle isn't the only option provided you're willing to have weapons that don't look as though they're made of obsidian.
 
Strewart: From what I got from it, when you pay the spear upgrade you loose the HW option? Correct me if I'm wrong, but show me your proof. Thanks.
 
LM Rulebook pg. 94

Sarus Warriors default equipment is:
Hand weapon
Shield

As additional equipment you may elect to purchase spears for each model. If you were to loose the HW's it would read something like "May trade hand weapons for spears at a cost of 1pt/model" or words to that effect.

There are no rules in the main rulebook or in the LM book that suggest models may only carry one weapon type into combat. In fact, the main rulebook eludes that many units may have a choice to make when it comes to weapons, saying that what ever weapon you choose at the beginning of the combat, you must use for its duration (BRB pg.54, first heading "Weapons & Units").

This is a neat aspect of the game that gives certian units versatility in choosing their weapons to tailor to specific combat circumstances. It does seem that LM armies don't benefit from it as much as others seem to.
 
What Barotok said is right. The versitility alone, so i've come to relize, is worth the extra pt per model. On another note my saurus are "armed". :walkingdead:
 
Ah, versatility, something that warriors of chaos just dont have :walkingdead:

now....

BEHOLD THE POWER OF THE STAFF OF THE LOST SUN,

:mad:
 
warriors of chaos just dont have
Click to expand...

I fail to see the truth in this statement. WoC seem to have a ton of options available to them. Consider that a standard chaos warrior unit has multiple weapon options; HW/SH, GW, Halberds, 2xHWs, just to name a few. They also can take marks of individual chaos gods. Their standard bearers are allowed to take a 50 point banner. There are a number of other core units that have many more options than a standard sarus unit or any other unit in the LM book. How is this not versatile?

If you refer to the fact that the WoC book, at a glance, seems like a 'one trick pony' relying on elite infantry and heavy cav to get the job done with a lower amount of shooting, I could almost agree with that.

In light of the current topic of this thread, I fail to see how they're not versatile.
 
slannfrog said:
Strewart: From what I got from it, when you pay the spear upgrade you loose the HW option? Correct me if I'm wrong, but show me your proof. Thanks.
Click to expand...

As well as what Barotek said, the main rulebook says that all models are assumed to be carrying hand weapons (not neccesarily weapons, could be claws, teeth etc) unless specifically stated otherwise, of which there are very very few examples. So as well as sauru, any model with 'upgraded' weapons can choose to use just hand weapons in combat if they want to, it is a good way to give Temple Guard a 2+ armour save if the extra strength from the halberd isn't needed.
 
Got a question on these lines... can a character be given a magic weapon and a great weapon in addition to the default hand weapon?

I was in a tourny last sunday (came in 2nd out of 12 players by the way... thank the gods for their engines) and I wasn't allowed to use a great weapon I had given to a scar-vet who also had a magic weapon. My opponents claimed that the rules do not allow this combo but we could not find it in the rules and I just let it go since I was winning anyway.

Any insight on this matter?
 
Unless the rules specifically state, "May trade X for Y at a cost of Z points." Additional equipment is exactly what it sounds like, additional.

As long as you've paid the points cost for extra/magic items, you are generally allowed to benefit from them. You may not change weapons during a combat, of course, but you may declare which weapon you want to use before making your first attack rolls.

It says right in the rules that a SV may take a great weapon. If you want to spend the points to give him a great weapon, spear, extra hand weapon and a magic item or two, you get to choose which weapon you want to use at the start of the combat.

Does this make sense from a logistical standpoint? No, it's not feasable for a single man sized model to carry so much equipment and I'm sure all would agree a character carrying all that junk would have a hard time carrying it all effecively. From a rules perspective though, your opponent sounds wrong.

On the flip side of the coin, I'd complement your willingness to go along with his rules despite the fact that they raised questions. In the spirit of the game, that is ultimately what keeps the game going. No one wants to quibble over rules.
 
If the rest of the unit is using spears, Does the champ get to switch to a HW in a challenge got benefit from the better a.save?
 
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