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7th Ed. To slay a Tyrant

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Skink

Dreq-Kai

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Hello there!

I'm in a bit of a pickle, I'm afraid. I was recently pounded into the dirt by my friend, who now plays Ogres. His Tyrant bashed my Oldblood down in well, one round of combat. He was tooled up well too, with a 3+ Armor Save and a 4+ Ward.

I've got a plan to deal with the blighter though. Problem is, I dunno if its legal.

Now say I gave my Oldblood;

Jaguar Charm, Pirahna Blade, and Bane Head.

Bane head Doubling the wounds, Pirahna Blade doing likewise, and racking the kills up to 4 wounds for landing just one? Can that happen? Or do I need to find another way?
 
I don't know how many people take champs in ogre units, but if they don't then you won't have to worry about champs challenging out your assassin saurus, so you should be good to go.

Having said that though. It's generally not a good idea IMO to tool against a specific problem. Usually a well rounded army will have answers against most things

Best of luck :)
 
I have always played that a single wound which goes through comes out to 4 wounds w/ the Pblade and bane head combo. That said, I myself am unsure of whether it is legal or not, but I will continue to use it as long as I find nothing contrary to it in FAQs or other army books.

One big suggestion that I have is to make sure that you can get portent of far off on your oldblood when he charges in. I understand that this may put your skink priest into a dangerous situation, but the critical nature of this charge usually warrants it.

However, I must say that a Tyrant, no matter how powerful he is, usually does not warrant a assassin oldblood in my eyes (normally reserved for VC gen. and high level casters). As he has no reach outside of combat, drawing him out of the battle line through forced redirects using skinks and terradons usually works better, and allows your oldblood to be used as a flank chomper. If your opponent wants to invest so many points in his lord, then that just means that the rest of his army is weaker.
 
Dreq-Kai said:
Jaguar Charm, Pirahna Blade, and Bane Head.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is a legal combiantion of magic items. You cannot have 2 enchanted items (the jaguar charm en the bane head). I don''t have the army book in front of me, so i could be mistaken.

You could mount your oldblood on a carno of a CO to get the extra movement en still get the extra wounds instead of the jaguar charm.
 
Skeletmen is correct about not being able to take the jaguar charm and the bane head.

A CO would also be useful as it will mitigate the chance that your hero will fail his fear test when he is charging the Tyrant (also giving you a 0+ save hopefully).
 
SohCahToa said:
I have always played that a single wound which goes through comes out to 4 wounds w/ the Pblade and bane head combo. That said, I myself am unsure of whether it is legal or not, but I will continue to use it as long as I find nothing contrary to it in FAQs or other army books.
Click to expand...

I just got a reply from GW Canada, they say that its totally legal.


Well, I find the Tyrant to be such a threat because my opponent usually sinks about 500 points (I think) into him.

Speaking of Ogre heros though, how do you deal with Lone Butchers running around? I usually go defence against Ogres, so I can't hunt them, and he usually uses them to reduce my screens to nothing.
 
The most efficiant way to kill lone butchers, at least how I have done it, is with the lowly skink. A unit of javelin skinks can usually keep out of his charge arc and poison him to death in 1-2 turns. Alternatively, I have used a unit of 2 jungles swarms w/a portent of far spell to see him off with poison attacks.

And as a piece of advice, I would suggest that you never play defensively with lizardmen, especially against OK. The lizardmen list is not one designed to be played in such a manner, and instead it is you who need to grab the initiative. Although OK are fast, your list should be faster (JSOD, Terries, SCOR) and better positioned (he will have to play as a battle-line, you can field scouts and have a fluid formation)
 
Ya I agree with SohCahToa, skinks and terradons are the best way to deal with ogres. Infact my friend that plays ogres absolutly hates skinks because they are so effective against him, although butchers are immune to poison.
 
Butchers are immune to poison :jawdrop: !?! Hmmm...now comes the internal ethical debate of whether I should inform my OK opponent who seems to have never picked up on that rule.... :shifty:
 
They sure are, though they may be one of the only things in the game that are.
 
They've spent all their life eating the most foul of the foulest things they can for whatever reason, leaving their big fat bodies capable of handling the most deadly poisons.

I happen to play lizzies and ogres, but I've never played my ogres vs lizzies or my lizzies vs ogres. However, I can tell you that only once has my tyrant ever been halfed for points and that was when he got sandpitted with a slayer unit. Every other time my opponent just focuses all his attacks on the unit he's with and chances him down for points. Tyrants that have 7 strength and do D3 wounds, not to mention a 4+ armor 5+ ward save that can and will destroy your magic weapon are just too tough to kill. Get him into a combat where you have the combat res advantage and left him tenderize whatever he wants and hope you kill enough of whatever unit he's in to make him run.

Oh and I take back the point he's never been killed. Two weeks ago an insanely magic heavy skaven army caught my tyrant with only 2 butchers (when he normally hangs out with 3 of the fat bastards) and after 3 turns of magic the entire unit and the tyrant was dead. Well to be fair his jezzrails(SP?) did their fair share of damage too.

The problem is a Slann has really no str5-6 magic spells to throw at him like skaven do.

Oh and butchers are what I like to call skink eaters. Just get them into combat anyway you can and keep them there.
 
I played Ogres for around 11 months and I ran across Lizardmen occassionally. My advice on handleing a Tyrant is simple. Skinks.

Use your skinks to lower the tyrant's unit down. One unit of 11+ should be sufficent. The Skinks have the same movement value of the tyrant and his unit so they cant be out manuvered, Skinks skirmish so difficult terrain is a huge bonus, The poisoned attacks get thru the Ogre's T4 or T5 and their piddily armor save will be failed more often than passed. Maybe you'll get a lucky failed panic check or something.

Dont like skinks? Use Terradons to bite at the flanks or rear of the Tyrant's unit. As tough as the tyrant is you take away his unit and he's a lone Lord choice begging to be magick'ed or shot to death. Ask any woodelf player. lol! If the tyrant DOES get into combat with you sacrafice your UC if you can. Sure he might get 6 CR on the challenge but at least the rest of your unit has a better chance to strike back. with 3 ranks, banner, outnumber you only need to do 1 wound to his unit to tie and 1 more to win. And next turn he strikes last.

The Basic rule of thumb is not to fight Tyrants in Close Combat. Shoot and magic his unit down and eventually he'll either fail his Panic check, be taken down to half wounds, or lose CR when he plows into your bricks. Also, try to hit the tyrant's unit in the rear or flank. Anywhere where the tyrant isnt in Base to base. Ogres only Strength is Close combat. Dont give it to them on their terms and you should have a fighting chance.

Also, when fighting Ogres if you know they've got the charge on you next turn and theres just no outmanuvering the MV6 bastards get your unit as close as possible to him. Ogres DONT get their impact hits unless there are at least 3 of them AND they move 6" or more on the charge. Take as many advantages away from the fatty backs as possible when faceing a strait-up fight with them.

Hope this helps.

-Tremendous :meh:
 
First for the original topic, about Bane Head and Piranha Sword combo.
Remember that Bane Head only affects enemy character which you have choosen.
I am no sure about this thing, so I will place an example here:

Saurus Scar-Veteran has Piranha Sword and charges against unit of 1 wound only unit <normal humans and stuff>. From 4 attacks, he hits and wounds with 2. Now does the unit take <lets say they failed their armour saves>, take 2 casualties or 4? So the main question is, does Piranha sword affect against 1 wound only units?

About the Tyrant, the thing is simple <not easy thought>.
Previously mentioned methods are good <skinks and stuff>, but I go for the Kroxigors.
Assuming Tyrant doesnt have first strike, if the Kroxigors charge, they just kill him <assuming they hit with puny WS 3>. Kroxigors have 3 S7 hits, and 2 of them touching the Tyrant, you get 6 S7 hits, hitting on 4 or more <or was it 5 or more>. Kroxigors are "The Hero Killers".

PS. Sorry that my language is quite weird for saying 4 or more. My computer doesnt allow the plus character here.
 
nyyman said:
Saurus Scar-Veteran has Piranha Sword and charges against unit of 1 wound only unit <normal humans and stuff>. From 4 attacks, he hits and wounds with 2. Now does the unit take <lets say they failed their armour saves>, take 2 casualties or 4? So the main question is, does Piranha sword affect against 1 wound only units?
Click to expand...

The unit would only take 2 casulties, the extra wounds are only dealt to creatures that have extra wounds, ogres, hereos, dragons ect
 
Ha, I say kill the Fat bastard with a good ole' Pit of Shades from a ticked off Slann. Doesn't matter if he has 3 unmodifiable 2+ save, he'll die automatically in one little slip. Initiative of 4, so on a 5 or 6 he's dead, end of story. And I've never met an Ogre army that can handle the magic of a Slann, so just keep firing till the bastard goes down.

-Dalkarius
 
Dude. The Ogres have Magic. Butcher Magic. They can just use a dispell scroll and go..... Oops did I do that?
The Tyrant will probably once it hits home be in Combat for quite some while.
 
Yeah, Ogres have Butcher Magic, but they (we) pay 130 points for our base-line caster. We can't take a caster over LvL 2 until 3000 points. The most you will have to deal with is three butchers in 2000 points; that is 5 dispel dice total. If they pay for the scrolls, they will have to cut back elsewhere.

Force them to use the Scrolls early. Spread out your spells from your Slann (if you are worried about magic) amongst the low-cast requirement spells and then cast as many spells as you can. If your opponent gets desperate, he will waste a scroll or two. With a Skink Priest or two in your list as well, the Scrolls will go quickly. Then you have a massive amount of Power Dice to his Dispel dice.

As an Ogre player, let me put it like this: we need the charge, and fast. Send out some small and expendable units to bog down a part of the Ogre line and then pick apart the rest with Skinks, Salamanders, and Magic. Once you think they are going to get a charge next turn, either move out of the charge range or move within 6" to deny the Bull Charge.

As for the Tyrant, he isn't that tough. If you cut down his unit, he's done. If you beat them in CR, he's done. Either focus all of your attacks on him or put all of them against the unit to stack Res. Most players run with a Tenderiser, making every hit do D3 wounds instead of one; so bog him down with a ranked unit of Saurus backed by a beefy Hero. The ranks and the hero will do it for you.
 
doom_diver said:
Dude. The Ogres have Magic. Butcher Magic. They can just use a dispell scroll and go..... Oops did I do that?
The Tyrant will probably once it hits home be in Combat for quite some while.
Click to expand...

Never seen a single Ogre army with anything worth calling "magic". Not to mention the Butchers damaged themselves to the point getting rid of them was pathetically easy. So, no, I have no fear of Ogres. Slann > Tyrant (As far as I'm concerned, I always play 2250)
 
I play 2250 ogres all the time and bring 3 butchers. This is how I defend against magic heavy armies for the 2 turns it takes to get me into combat.(in my allcomer's list)

My tyrant is in a unit of 4 bulls full command and a look out gnoblar. Also in that unit is a butcher with grut's sickle and a thiefstone. Now my tyrant has MR1. My other butchers have bangstick/scroll and hellheart as their items.

Turn 1 I hellheart to help stop magic. Especially effective against slanns who are always using 3-4 dice per cast. Turn 2 hopefully I still have my scroll, if not 5 dice and MR1 on my tyrant will keep him alive. I know what spells you have, I won't leave you with enough dice to cast pit of shades without me having a chance of dispelling it.
Turn 3 I'm in combat. And that only cost me 90 points. On the flip side, I got 8 powerdice and a bound spell and grut's sickle vs your 6 dispel dice. I'll be getting of just as many spells. Maybe even MR2/regen on my tyrant in turn 1.

So no, don't expect to magic a tyrant to death.

As far as a unit of kroxigors hitting my tyrant. Here's the math. 6 attacks, 3 hit, 2.5 wound, 1.67 get past wyrdstone necklace. We'll call it 2 wounds. He has 3 left. He has 5 attacks, 3.333 hit, 2.77 wound after tenderizer does D3 wounds that's 5.55 wounds. Possibly 2 dead kroxigors.

I was using my basic setup of heavyarmor, tenderizer, greedyfist, wyrdstone necklace for the tyrant.

You need combat res to beat him and lizardmen just don't have enough.
 
Playing agains ogres you have to concentrade to take out the butchers because they crap without them.
Giants are not so good as they like because there low armour and the large target rule. you can take them out with cold ones, kroxigors or blow him up with magic.
 
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