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8th Ed. Tips against Chaos

C
Cold One

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So having had his Wood Elf army thrashed in 8th edition successively, one of my regular opponents has sold his soul to the Dark Powers and started collecting Warriors of Chaos. I've not encountered them before, so I was wondering what tips you guys would have against them.

My main concern is, of course, the hardiness of the Chaos Warrior itself - so much so that Saurus Warriors pale in comparison. Three attacks at WS5 and chaos armour? With marks of chaos buffs too? And a magic standard? Yikes. How do you even match this with something that is WS3, I1 and no option for banners/upgrades besides spears?

We're looking at 1.5k games soon to get started. I've been toying with the idea of squeezing in a lone Slann with Loremaster Metal (shame scaly skin doesn't stack, eh?) and using it as an artillery peice to nuke all that high armour save units. Or Life to keep everything alive.

Of course, two Salamanders are always on the cards. Three Kroxigors on the flanks? Some Saurus Cavalry? A Stegadon?

What are your thoughts?
 
I'm also getting ready for my first battle against Warriors of Chaos (2500 points), so I'll be really interested in this thread. In particular, I'm wondering about Chameleon Skinks. They have become a regular fixture in my lists, but I don't really see their use against WoC. The only war War Machine they have is the Hellcannon, and it doesn't look like they would be very effective against its 5 wounds and 4+ AS. Or maybe I should bring more Chameleons, but I don't want to drop too many points into Chams if he doesn't bring a Hellcannon.

I don't think the Chams would work against Warriors, and against Maurauders I'd rather have more shots from standard Skink Skirmishers.

So what do you think - do Chameleons have a place against WoC?
 
That's what I thought, too. My chameleon skinks have been effective in almost every game so far - but that's against T3 elves, or weak wizards. There doesn't seem anything weak in the WoC army that they can exploit. Except, perhaps, for marauders - but normal skinks should be able to handle them. In fact, when I was doing a few mock up army lists, they were the first thing to go.


I thought about taking the Skavenpelt banner. Then I realised you have to put it on a skink BSB. Who would have no magic armour. And would have to go in the front rank. And I thought, why bother?
 
Chamos are fine, you need all chaff and skirmishers and stuff to feed the Chosen funbus

Having faced that particularry army in random deployment scenario (dawn attack?)..
 
Chamos work fine against them, because while you will kill less of them per volley, the WoC player will cringe with every expensive model he pulls off.

Also, Metalworking and poison work great in conjunction with each other. You can raise a pesky armor save ( two different spells to chose from) right before you fire, plus give your chamos Enchanted Blades with a +1 to hit and Armour Piercing.

I have yet to lose to Chaos with this combo.
 
Buff spells.
Buff spells.
Buff spells.

Seriously chaos warrior (chosen and khorne especially) hit like a sack of bricks.
here's what I do.
I always take Lore of Life against them, the only spell that doesn't do too well against them is the dwellers bellow
The slann casts throne of vines and then makes one of the 25 strong saurus blocks go up to T8 with flesh to stone. Then I take the charge. My saurus have spears so the fight in three ranks and they should be able to weather the charge with the boosted toughness. Then next turn a unit of cavalry, or something counter charges. to help the saurus warriors who probably won't be T8 next turn. (your opponent will shut that down after the one turn). at this point you give the unit Shield of Thorns, or some such.
Also a lvl one skink priest with Iceshard Blizzard signature spell, can debuff a warrior unit at key moments in the game.

This tactic would work equally well with lore of light.
 
I played WOC today and had a crushing victory!

I used light, he had a nurgle mage which is so dangerous as there is a spell that goes on I to force an armor save, then passes are slain instantly

Also the marks are annoying. My friend only ever uses nurgle, -1 WS and BS to all attackers. At WS 3 with sauri its pretty bad. Light can remedy this however, Speed of Light give I 10 and WS 10, thats two birds with one stone in my opinion!

Chosen are also pretty nasty, I had 5 chamo skinks that killed 6/10 on the first turn after i scouted behind him :) Also, they have a number of magic items and standards that can pack a punch.

All chaos magic is very dangerous. Shut it down!

Getting ASF with plus one attack and double movement usually means you can get the charge and win combat, unfortunate though is the fact that chaos re-roll panic tests. Salamanders pounding into them eventually turned out successful.

All in all, try set up second, if he has a blatant battle line, Set up everything on a flank. Chaos Warriors have movement 4 like sauri. So if you bring your army on a flank, you can force him to walk across the whole board. Which can take up to two or three turns. Saving you some pain!

Other than that, Good luck! Hope I managed to help, let us know how you get on!
 
lolwut, only 10 chosens? Where was the infamous 30+ models partybus? I guess he/she didnt have Favor of the gods, frenzy bannah or douple warshrines with him/her
 
Yeah only 10 chosen. 1 Warshrine, his buffs were +1 attack and something else pointless. Didn't have a magic banner on them, which I asked him about at the time and he seem complacent.

He had a very stupid set up. And his tactics were solid though, using the warriors and Knights really well.

But Chaos aren't that strong at defensive magic, they have some nasty spells, but when it's our phase lizzes dominate
 
I recently fought my friend in a 2000pt game, i had no lords in my army but i found that big blocks of saurus warriors in the middle lead by the gor rok hero. place him in front of any knights if they dont have any marauders as this eliminates the charge. i have used both teradons and chameleons and found that teradons
are very good for either barraging the units as they make their way to you or dropping rocks focused on the general. i would recommend including kroq gar as a first lord choice as this frees you up to include a cavalry unit with are great for intervening when your opponent is about to charge it also crates another special slot. finally as skinks are aquatic i strongly recommend just casually placing a river or lake as scenery as they are under light protection, cannot be charged and can jump out to flank an opponent. the word "NUCLEA SUB" com to mind
 
I've seen some pretty good comments on here. The big thing to remember about Chaos is that unless your opponent likes to go marauder crazy they will have a very compact army. Their warriors and cavalry, while very good at thrashing the enemy in hth, are also extreamly expensive. A few suggestions;

Chameleons are good in an army, take at least one minimum unit if not two. Remember that war machines wounds now work off number of crew. If you kill the crew off you've eliminated the war machine, this rule comes straight from BRB. If the Hell Cannon has some special rule that precludes this then I think it still has the rampage rule where if you kill the crew it charges anything (friend or foe) closest to it. So it could work in your favor. Also, if he doesn't take a Hell Cannon (they don't take them here because they're expensive and rarely earn back points) your Chameleons are excellent in taking out smaller units.

Skrox units while fast will get eatten alive against Chaos. I like the unit, fluff and battlefield uses. However against Chaos you simply will lose too many skinks and your opponent will gain too much CR from them before your Krox do damage you'll either lose or tie. Go with straight Krox units and you'll do great. You might even think about taking 6 to a unit!

Cold One Cavalry are awesome! I've a big proponent for them anyways but against Chaos you'll need them. Their 2+ AS and movement will help you get the flank and rear charges you'll need against Chaos to win CR. Their Str 5 charge will also help in breaking armour and toughness.

Try putting a Skink Chief BSB on a Stegadon. Being on a large mount will give the BSB an 18" range which will be invaluable. I also suggest staying away from a magic BSB and put points towards either protecting your Chief or go with combat power or a mix.

Lastly here are a couple of tactics you can try.

Checkerboard - Buy about 4-5 units of 10 or 15 rank/file skinks and set them up in front with space between them which could ALMOST fit a Saurus unit. Then get about 3-5 units of Saurus (I'd suggest at least 18 but you might wanna go 24) with hw/s set up. Let the skinks draw charges from the Chaos forces and have them flee. Having a Chief BSB on a Steg set up centrally would be key to rallying these units. After the Chaos forces have over stretched themselves in charging your skinks you can charge in with multiple units of Saurus on one unit of Chaos, hopefully timing with flank or rear from CoC.

Hammer/Anvil - This involves several units of Saurus (either hw/s or spear) and set up a standard line just off of center. Place multiple units of CoC on one flank (called a weighted flank) or on both flanks (this is sometimes called a meat grinder). These units are generally no larger than 6 but feel free to take more as with chaos you might need more numbers. Have the Chaos player smash against your shield wall of Saurus and hold them while your CoC come in on the flanks for retaliation charges. Getting a unit of Terradons for fast/heavy cav harrasment would be a good idea for this to help protect your CoC's flanks.
 
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