AoS Thunder Lizard 2K List - Kroak & Co.

[Clint Moll]

Proud of this one as it satisfies my needs for space lizard aesthetics and still packs quite a punch.


Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Lord Kroak (430)
Engine of the Gods (265)
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse
Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (270)*
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Skink Starseer (145)**
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Skink Starpriest (130)**
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Skink Priest (80)*
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Heal

Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (115)**
5 x Saurus Knights (110)*
- Blades
5 x Saurus Knights (110)*
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (110)*
- Lances

Behemoths
Bastiladon with Solar Engine (235)*

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105
Drops: 6


I’ve considered moving the Amulet to the EotG (general) and putting the fusil elsewhere, but I genuinely enjoy the way the Old blood on Carno plays with the amulet ward save. Carnosaur with all out defense saving on 3’s and a 5up ward save is truly an anvil. People really struggle to take him off the table. It gives the OB on Carno the staying power it deserves at 12+2 wounds. Also, Carno is the ideal candidate for heroic recovery at bravery 8. I typically power pair the Carno with the starseer for that extra charge range and magical buff, and that quickly becomes a focal point for my opponents. Meanwhile the bastiladon can anchor on the other side of the table and snipe while I walk Kroak and the EotG right into the middle of the map for Death Star radius effect.

it’s a great list. Really happy with where things are at in 3.0. I don’t own any Sally’s, and I’ve never run a starborn list, but I’d put this one up against most ……. Would love to hear your feedback!

 

[Just A Skink]

This looks like a very solid TL list and a lot of fun to play. Most of the suggestions I can make are cosmetic, and are often borrowed from the real "list-smiths" on the site.

-The first, you've already mentioned; possibly putting the Amulet on the EotG. Protecting your general more is never a bad idea, but I can see where the Carno plays more aggressively with that 5+ ward.

-Have you considered the Scar-Vet over the Oldblood? Not only is the SV cheaper but his command ability is arguably more flexible; the Oldblood basically just has All Out Attack. You could add an endless spell with the point difference. Perhaps Lauchon the Soulseeker? Check out this battle report from @Killer Angel. Scroll down to his KO battle.

-I've seen a few lists where they group two of the Knights into one unit of 10 for more punch. But you reduce your board presence a bit.

-What about dropping the Battle Regiment Battalion for Hunters of the Heartland? That seems kind of weak b/c the only units going into it would be Knights.

Either way, have fun delivering the "Smack Down of the Old Ones" to your opponents!

 

[Killer Angel]

-Have you considered the Scar-Vet over the Oldblood? Not only is the SV cheaper but his command ability is arguably more flexible; the Oldblood basically just has All Out Attack. You could add an endless spell with the point difference. Perhaps Lauchon the Soulseeker? Check out this battle report from @Killer Angel. Scroll down to his KO battle.

you linked the final post. This one is the first.

That said... yeah, Lauchon is just a tool that helps you to have an additional way to let Kroak do his work and threaten a larger portion of the battlefield. If you manage to have the points is not a bad idea.

Your list is fine, but i have issues when i see Kroak without an astrolith bearer... and there are things i don't see as useful (how do you plan to use the starseer?). your only melee hitter is the Carnosaur, which is fine but if the opponent kills it, you'll struggle go in CC outside Kroak's 10" range support.
Of course, if you play Kroak AND saurus guards AND astrolith bearer AND an endless spell (the way i like), it's a points sink.

 

[ChameleonGnom]

That said... yeah, Lauchon is just a tool that helps you to have an additional way to let Kroak do his work and threaten a larger portion of the battlefield. If you manage to have the points is not a bad idea.

There are some rules problems here. Lauchon is a predatory endless spell. So he moves at the end of the hero phase. Kroak should sadly not be able to cast spells afterwards.

 

[Killer Angel]

There are some rules problems here. Lauchon is a predatory endless spell. So he moves at the end of the hero phase. Kroak should sadly not be able to cast spells afterwards.

...i think you may be right. I've always thought that the whole "move at the end of the hero phase" was limited to the subsequent turns after the casting, but in the rules it seems clear that it works also when you cast it.
Oh well, thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Clint Moll]

you linked the final post. This one is the first.

That said... yeah, Lauchon is just a tool that helps you to have an additional way to let Kroak do his work and threaten a larger portion of the battlefield. If you manage to have the points is not a bad idea.

Your list is fine, but i have issues when i see Kroak without an astrolith bearer... and there are things i don't see as useful (how do you plan to use the starseer?). your only melee hitter is the Carnosaur, which is fine but if the opponent kills it, you'll struggle go in CC outside Kroak's 10" range support.
Of course, if you play Kroak AND saurus guards AND astrolith bearer AND an endless spell (the way i like), it's a points sink.

OK - Pardon my delayed response. A couple points to make here:

1) In my humble opinion, the Old Blood on Carno is worth 55 extra points. Yes, I said it...... I know the Scar Vet on Carno at 215 is a great budget purchase, but it's just that. A budget purchase. I don't think I've ever seen anyone run the Scar Vet with something other than the War Spear, so I'm going to assume were comparing those two attack profiles, and at the end of the day, the rend (cannot be understated) and additional damage on the sunstone spear is worth the 55 points. Bar none. Every time that sunstone spear explodes on a '6' , it does exponential more damage than the SV's war spear ever will. On top of that getting a +1 to would for finest hour is only that much more devastating with the sunstone spear when you're most likely 2 to hit/2 to wound. It's the choice to make if you can find the 55 pts.

The exploding 6's command ability is nice on the SV, but I'm a bigger fan of an additional way to get a plus 1 to hit for another unit during combat phase via Wrath of the Seraphon command ability (as previously mentioned stacked with 'finest hour').

When you go toe to toe, the Old Blood is better for a reason, and if you've got the 55 points laying around I'd much rather take him than a 2nd tier endless spell.

2) In my humble opinion a large percentage of our fellow Seraphon players simply do not know or appreciate the potency of the 140 point Skink Starseer. The wisest of the skinks. He is valuable for 3 key ingreidents in my list, and really any seraphon list in general. To the gent who asked 'what do you plan to do with the starseer' Here's what:
a) Spam his ability to affect charge range at 3D6. This cannot be understated for a thunderlizards monster list that shoots hard, and follows up with lots of cavalry and big monsters on a big charge.
b) His ability to bring 2 key spells to the table. His war scroll spell has never been more dangerous in the age of save and rend stacking. 'Control Fate' is a god tier spell at this point. Also the fact you can throw 'Hand of Glory' on him to ensure you have access to re-roll's at all times. This is HUGE. You cannot understate the value of those two spells (especially when you give him the 1+ to cast consistency from Kroak's lore)
c) Last but not least the Starseer's ability to act as an Arcane Vassal to the dead toad. When maximized, It projects power further than an astrolith bearer can.


I can appreciate your sentiment with pulling the Starseer and adding an astrolith bearer, (I'd need to find an extra 10 points as well) but just don't feel that would fit the style of play or optimize my potential. (Now we have ward saves with Primeval Domain). I line my ranks up in an Imperial Death Star formation and lurch forward to the center of the table. If anything, it's fun.

Appreciate the perspective, and just know, the first thing I've always considered changing in my list was bringing the Astrolith on.....

 

[Killer Angel]

2) In my humble opinion a large percentage of our fellow Seraphon players simply do not know or appreciate the potency of the 140 point Skink Starseer. The wisest of the skinks. He is valuable for 3 key ingreidents in my list, and really any seraphon list in general. To the gent who asked 'what do you plan to do with the starseer' Here's what:
a) Spam his ability to affect charge range at 3D6. This cannot be understated for a thunderlizards monster list that shoots hard, and follows up with lots of cavalry and big monsters on a big charge.
b) His ability to bring 2 key spells to the table. His war scroll spell has never been more dangerous in the age of save and rend stacking. 'Control Fate' is a god tier spell at this point. Also the fact you can throw 'Hand of Glory' on him to ensure you have access to re-roll's at all times. This is HUGE. You cannot understate the value of those two spells (especially when you give him the 1+ to cast consistency from Kroak's lore)
c) Last but not least the Starseer's ability to act as an Arcane Vassal to the dead toad. When maximized, It projects power further than an astrolith bearer can.


I can appreciate your sentiment with pulling the Starseer and adding an astrolith bearer, (I'd need to find an extra 10 points as well) but just don't feel that would fit the style of play or optimize my potential. (Now we have ward saves with Primeval Domain). I line my ranks up in an Imperial Death Star formation and lurch forward to the center of the table. If anything, it's fun.

Appreciate the perspective, and just know, the first thing I've always considered changing in my list was bringing the Astrolith on.....

These are all valid points.
To further elaborate on the subject "Starseer vs Astrolith", i'd add that:
- the bonus granted by the Astrolith is not merely the range (which can indeed be outclassed by the starseer's positioning), but also the bonus to cast (highly valuable to trigger more easily the big comet and the higher castings of celestial deliverance), plus the ward saves when you leave the comfort zone granted by Primeval Domain. These additional bonuses may or may not compensate the loss of the other abilities of the starseer, that depends on the list and on the opponent.
- The Starseer is absolutely one of our best buffers within the current state of AoS 3.0, exactly for the reasons you mentioned. Amazing spell and amazing ability, we should insert him in our lists more often than not. It's only that i run him usuall with a Slann, because it's very hard to fit him alongside Kroak and the Astrolith (all 3 of them it's too many points sink), and when i run Kroak I'm more looking at being the most efficient i can in spamming MWs.

Personally i tend to field:
Kroak + Astrolith
Slann + Starseer
or at most Slann + Starseer + Astrolith

But that's more a personal preference, rather than a tangible difference in efficiency.

 

[Tombomb7]

These are all valid points.
To further elaborate on the subject "Starseer vs Astrolith", i'd add that:
- the bonus granted by the Astrolith is not merely the range (which can indeed be outclassed by the starseer's positioning), but also the bonus to cast (highly valuable to trigger more easily the big comet and the higher castings of celestial deliverance), plus the ward saves when you leave the comfort zone granted by Primeval Domain. These additional bonuses may or may not compensate the loss of the other abilities of the starseer, that depends on the list and on the opponent.
- The Starseer is absolutely one of our best buffers within the current state of AoS 3.0, exactly for the reasons you mentioned. Amazing spell and amazing ability, we should insert him in our lists more often than not. It's only that i run him usuall with a Slann, because it's very hard to fit him alongside Kroak and the Astrolith (all 3 of them it's too many points sink), and when i run Kroak I'm more looking at being the most efficient i can in spamming MWs.

Personally i tend to field:
Kroak + Astrolith
Slann + Starseer
or at most Slann + Starseer + Astrolith

But that's more a personal preference, rather than a tangible difference in efficiency.

Loving this discussion as I gear up to play some 3.0 games and a tournament next month. I try to run a Trogolodon in a list with the AB and Kroak to maximise that MW projection from Kroak through the Trogolodon.
From reading the above, it seems like it'll be tough for me to add a Starseer aswell