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8th Ed. The Middle Ground?

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Jungle Swarm

Vaiuri

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I've just returned to Warhammer and have decided to pick up my beloved Lizardmen once more. I left them behind last book because I found myself unable to write different lists and got really bored. I was hoping things might have changed with the latest book, but lo and behold, I've fallen into the same dull trap.

I started looking around for inspiration, I want to tread that middle ground of having an army that can compete, but not at the expense of fun or 'cool' factor.

My crutches are:
Slann in T Guard
2 units Saurus
1-2 Priests
Salamanders

This inevitably ends up being most of my lists, leaving me little to play with in terms of monsters or new units I might not have tried before.

Any advice on how to ditch a crutch or inject a bit of originality into a Lizardmen list?
 
Hey! Welcome to the forums.

Here's a link to Scalenex's Lizardmen Tactica Index for some bathroom reading!

http://www.lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8681

The short answer is, 'Yes.'

Solo Slann, mundane lists (no magic), Saurus/TG-less lists, Monster-less, etc. all seem to be equally viable in the right hands. Experiment!

Dropping the points-heavy Saurus units should open up a lot of room.

I like small Skrox units w/ Poisoned Attacks, Solar Engine Bastiladons, big (5+) groups of Razordons w/ Hand of Glory, Troglodons for Arcane Vassal / flee-bait, big groups of Terradons & Ripperdactyls, mixing it up with blowpipe Skirmishers, Skink Chiefs on flyers, a good number of viable special characters, Skink Priests with Cloak of Feathers, cowboy Scar Vets, Scarnosaurs, Oldbloods on Carns... lots of good choices.

For originality, pick a region for your Lizards to hail from. Mine seek to refortify Pahuax, so right now I'm working on giving them all an ash-coated/obsidian look. My lists usually run the Egg of Quango (a relic from the Isthmus), a Salamander or two, flyers, intense magic, and Skrox. Their fluff reflects the blasted-out history of the temple city as well.

Many options!
 
Thanks for the link, I've already had a good look at some bits on here - particularly Cowboy builds and Carnosaur tactica.

By dropping Saurus blocks, I'm finding I don't have enough Standards to deal with Blood and Glory (the scenario that deals with break points) - would you take them in COld One units to make up for that?

I'm see-sawing between just trying my old list and giving High Magic a try and tearing up the book and trying a full on monster heavy list - I just don't want to rock up to a game and get tabled because the big dinos can't compete (and I don't really know how to use them en masse!).
 
Skink Cohorts can also take standards - you'll get two standards from Cohorts for every one from Saurus.

If Toughness is an issue, taking a Krox or two in the Cohort will toughen it up nicely. Then, of course, there's Wyssan's & Iceshard from Beasts & Heavens. Screening a unit of Skirmishers ahead works well too.

As far as our monster-heavy lists go, it seems to be all about dodging tarpits & monitoring leadership.
 
Ive had a lot of fun with a hoard or 2 of skink cohorts with poison attacks. 50-60 in hoard. move them up shoot 20 poison shots . then when they charge you stand and shoot another 20. then if they make the charge you got 30 poison attacks at I4 . Get any strength buff spell on them and it can do quite abit of damage.
 
Would you recommend a Sk horde in a non-slann army? Think I'd have to build a mighty unit-filler to stop myself going crazy painting that many Skinks too!

In Skink Horde vs. equvalent points Saurus - the points invested in 50+ poisoned Skinks, you could get a nice block of Saurus (sorry, I Love Saurus, I need some convincing to make the change!), but without the robustness. Now, the ablative wounds you are buying into will probably get you through a similar number of combat rounds, so is it the poison and ranged attack that makes this a better choice?

Sorry for the hundreds of questions, I'm trying to shake up my own ideas and use some from other Lizardmen Vets!
 
I have not used saurus in core since using these skink blocks. They are faster moving , they can shoot and there are so many high strength attacks out there that t4 is no better then t2. So you get more wounds , poison to deal with high toughness.
 
Saurus seem to be better than Skink Cohorts against S3/T3 (a fairly common statline), although their low Initiative coupled with WS3 & Predatory Fighter's Frenzy-like drawbacks severely limit their potential.

Skink Cohorts, however, appear to outclass them in every other way, especially if they're vessels for Krox and/or poison.

Still, they both bring something different to the battle. Neither seems great at filling the other's shoes - they're both simply good at their individual roles. It's hard to compare the two.

Haven't gone Slann-less enough to comment on either in that environment.
 
I have had little trouble going slann-less. I've gotten so sick of spending 800 or so points on a slann and a temple guard bunker, only to lose most of it to a miscast on turn one, or by having bad rolls on winds, or by rolling poorly. Having so many points tied up in magic (and magic accessories, such as the aforementioned temple guard) means that you are spending so much on the most random part of the game.

Bring two oldblood cowboys instead. Couple of oldbloods, couple of scar vets, and a couple of priests with scroll and cube. You have a ton of combat potential, and you can still use magic (and you don't care about losing a couple of priests). You can bring a bastiladon or two, maybe an ancient steg with the EotG, and have a good magic phase without spending so much on just a wizard. Once you get stuff in combat, you only care about stopping a few spells anyway.


Solo slann is fun, too. Against most armies, just keep him out of harms way. If there is a lot of shooting, put him in a cohort bunker. 100 points of skinks protect against shooting just as well as 400 points of temple guard.

If I bring saurus anymore, I only bring one block. The more I play, the more I realize that skinks are the far superior core. They have shooting, they have ranks, and you don't care if they die.
 
LawGnome said:
If there is a lot of shooting, put him in a cohort bunker. 100 points of skinks protect against shooting just as well as 400 points of temple guard.
Click to expand...
This is oh so very wrong. Auto look out sir and standing in the second rank isn't just for show.
 
SilverFaith said:
LawGnome said:
If there is a lot of shooting, put him in a cohort bunker. 100 points of skinks protect against shooting just as well as 400 points of temple guard.
Click to expand...
This is oh so very wrong. Auto look out sir and standing in the second rank isn't just for show.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, a miscast doesn't wipe out 100 points worth of skinks like it does for temple guard. That second rank business kills another 3 temple guard minimum. The 100 point skink bunker protects against BS shooting, and a 2+ LoS is still pretty good. Second rank doesn't matter if you aren't getting into combat. Also, you feel much better about leaving a cohort behind the rest of your troops than a huge group of temple guard.

The skink bunker is like running a solo slann with cannon protection. If you need it, pop him in the unit. If you don't, let him run free and use the skinks elsewhere.
 
Some great tips here, thanks for the ideas. I admit, going Slann-less is quite tempting, particularly since we now have a couple of decent bound spells and skinks can take beasts.

With a skink heavy core, would Tetto'eko be a good buy? I like the idea of a cowboy or too, but am loach to spam it - perhaps a chief on ripper would work too? I admit, rippers worry me, frenzy and I don't get on. They strike me as a 'rule of 2' kind of unit.
 
Vaiuri said:
Some great tips here, thanks for the ideas. I admit, going Slann-less is quite tempting, particularly since we now have a couple of decent bound spells and skinks can take beasts.

With a skink heavy core, would Tetto'eko be a good buy? I like the idea of a cowboy or too, but am loach to spam it - perhaps a chief on ripper would work too? I admit, rippers worry me, frenzy and I don't get on. They strike me as a 'rule of 2' kind of unit.
Click to expand...

Ripper chiefs are pretty good. Give him a spear, a shield, a dragonhelm, and the egg, and he is a beast. If you are lucky enough to find a unit with the flaming banner, run him into them. Otherwise, look for a decent unit to throw him into the flank of. Remember, the egg goes first, so you can easily win a combat on he charge, and combo charges with him are devastating.

Frenzy isn't a big deal. Just have him face away on turns you don't intend to charge something. You get free pivots, so use that to your advantage.
 
I think our gaming group is going to allow chiefs on flyers to join like units, would you recommend this or keep the chief solo?

I admit, I love building these crazy gung-ho kinda characters, I'm looking forward to building a different list from my norm.
 
Seems like the Chief would do well in a group. Plus, it gives you the option to charge out of the unit - that could take some opponents by surprise.

Watch out for Wizards with Lore of Heavens, though. :P
 
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