8th Ed. Tactics Puzzle #1

[hdctambien]

As promised, here is the terrible predicament I got myself into last night:

Picture:

Larger Picture of Battlefield

Artistic Rendering:
Rendering of Battlefield


Lizardmen had first turn, and this is the beginning of turn 3.

Lizardmen (what is left)

Old Blood with Talisman of Preservation, Glittering Scales, Gold Sigil Sword, OTS
	He has a 1+/4+ and is at -1 to be hit and has Inititive 10. He also has 1 wound on him and is in a challenge with the Dark Elf BSB.

Skink Priest: Level 1 Beasts (Wyssians) with Dispel Scroll (already used)

27 Saurus Warriors (down from 36), Hand Weapon and Shield with full command

30 Temple Guard (deployed too far away to do anything useful) with full command

9 Skinks with Javs (down from 10)

Dark Elves (what is left ... basically everything)

7 units of 5 Dark Riders (some with casualties) with musicians. Fast Cav with Armor Piercing repeater bows and either a 5+ or 6+ save, I think.

2 units of 10 Shades. (stupidly under priced unit). Armor Piercing, Str 4 repeater bows, Great Weapons, and I think a 4+ save (plus parry)

3 Repeater Bolt Throwers. Nuff said.

11 Warlocks (down from 21 I believe) + General + BSB + Level 4 Wizard.

General has the "Challenge Talisman" that bounces Ward Saved wounds back to the attacker, a 4+ ward save and the Ogre Blade

BSB has a 1+ save but no Ward. I think he's wearing the Mask of Eeeeee. He has taken 1 wound already and is in a challenge with the Old Blood.

Wizard has some item that makes me miscast on double 1's if I target anything near him
 His spells (that he ever used) are:
 	Word of Pain (-d3 WS, BS or -d3 WS, BS, S, I)
 	Shroud of Despair

 And the Warlocks have: Power of Darkness and Soulblight (-1S, -1T)

Last magic phase the Dark Elf successfully cast Power of Darkness, so the Warlock unit is at +1 Strength.

---

He's already killed 1180 worth of the Lizardmen (+100 points for killing the BSB in Close Combat). But it's a 2500 point game, so there are plenty of points left on the table and I believe over half his points are in the Warlock unit.

So ... what would you do?

 

[n810]

(I can't seem to embed the image because my "images may only be up to 1 pixels wide.")

use [pic] instead of

 

[hdctambien]

Fixed. Thanks n810!

 

[Tlaloc of Xhotl]

Ok lets have a go...

MOVEMENT PHASE:

Charges:
1. Warriors into the Dark Rider unit in front. If they flee re-direct into warlocks. If they don't flee should die I reckon and you can overrun into warlocks.

Movement:
1. Skink unit moves towards the priest who moves into them and joins them.
2. Templeguard wheel and move to his shades and/or RBT asap.

MAGIC PHASE:
1. Priest either dispels the warlocks +str or casts wissans on skinks. Depends if you think lord will die to BSB.

SHOOTING PHASE:
1. Skinks take out the largest Dark Rider unit they have a chance at. Hopefully panic tests.

COMBAT PHASE:
1. Oldblood takes on BSB and saurus take on whatever they can reach.


Following turns:
TG ignore riders andhead for the RBTs, taking on shades if they get too close.
Saurus and lord need to keep on warlocks until they die if possible.
If BSB dies and general challenges accept with Saurus unit leader and let oldblood kill warlocks.
Priest and skinks move round casting wissans wherever it's most useful and javelining riders that are close enough.

Basically you need to get the Warlocks down. TG are going to take out RBTs for 300 VPs ( I think?) but might be worth getting them on the warlocks if the saurus/lord cant.

Everyone but the skinks can ignore the dark riders. They can't take out your ranks in combat and their shooting is unlikely to kill many. Use hills and forests LoS to block models from shooting as much as possible will help tho.

Shades may cause some damage with the GW but if you can buff with wissans I think saurus can beat.

Thats what I'd try anyway

 

[NexS1]

Oh, I like this game!

How would I go?

MOVE:
Charge riders with saurus(assuming he doesn't flee, if he does it's a very easy choice to redirect into the warlocks). wheel/swift reform & move the TG toward the other units on the table (if they charge you then fantastic!), keeping dark riders in front arc. Move the priest onto the hill somewhere out of charge arc of the riders. Chargeblock riders with skinks

MAGIC:
Unsure really, probably wyssians on oldblood

SHOOTING:
Hopefully do enough wounds to panic the riders int he bottom right

COMBAT:
Saurus should destroy the riders and the oldblood *should* destroy the bsb.

Only issue now is that you'll be in a challenge with his general. Going on averages, he should hit with 2, wound with 1 (provided you get wyssians) and you might get one unsaved wound on him. Hopefully you don't break and can charge with saurus.
Only other thing you could hope for is to IF the wyssians and put the priest near some dark riders and hopefully blow them up with a template miscast... Long shot though..

 

[Morewar]

Shades have no save(unless he pays for light armour) no parry, and their repeater crossbows are S3!
And warlocks automatically get doom bolt and soublight, they can't switch them out for the signatures!
I don't like callIng people I don't know cheats but... Ask your opponent for his army book next time.

 

[RipperDerek]

It's hard to tell from the rendering vs. the actual picture, but based on the rendering it looks to me like the saurus might be able to bypass the dark riders and charge the flank of the warlocks directly with a backwards wheel. If so, I'm pretty sure that's the winning move in this situation.

Charging the riders doesn't help, they stay and you can't overrun into Warlocks even if you kill them all.

 

[hdctambien]

Shades have no save(unless he pays for light armour) no parry, and their repeater crossbows are S3!
And warlocks automatically get doom bolt and soublight, they can't switch them out for the signatures!
I don't like callIng people I don't know cheats but... Ask your opponent for his army book next time.

He def wasn't cheating, I was writing out the rules as I barely remember them. All I know is that sometimes I get -1 to my armor save when he shoots and sometimes I don't. But he starts the game with 55 models that can all double-tab (110 shots) so its hard to keep track... and I tried charging his Shades with my Skink Javs once .... once.

Same goes for his spells. I only really remembered what spells he had cast not really who cast what.

It's hard to tell from the rendering vs. the actual picture, but based on the rendering it looks to me like the saurus might be able to bypass the dark riders and charge the flank of the warlocks directly with a backwards wheel. If so, I'm pretty sure that's the winning move in this situation.

Charging the riders doesn't help, they stay and you can't overrun into Warlocks even if you kill them all.

I don't think backwards wheeling is a thing (although I did have to double check because that would have changed the outcome of a lot of my games). The BRB says: "When performing a wheel, the leading edge of the formation moves forward, pivoting round one of the front corners.... Units are not allowed to wheel backwards"

That being said, I did charge into the Dark Riders (because there wasn't much else I could do and at that point I hadn't claimed a single victory point ... so at least I could come away with 110!) and the overrun did bring be right past the Warlocks (which is exactly why he maneuvered the riders to where they where)

---

In the actual game I did a combination of what Tlaloc of Xhotl and NexS1 said.

I charged the Saurus into the Dark Riders, moved the Skinks westward to shoot at the unit of 3 Dark Riders and moved my priest easterly to get right behind the skinks (next turn I would move the Priest into the unit)

I tried to cast Wyssans on the Old Blood, but was dispelled (rolled a 1 and 4 for winds of magic...)

I actually charged with the Temple Guard (I had given up on them because of poor deployment, but now I think I should have pushed them across the board and tried for the bolt throwers...) and ended up causing the Dark Riders to flee off the table (after a failed rally attempt) but left them so out of place that they never really affected the battle.

I rolled REALLY poorly in every phase... but sometimes the dice don't follow the will of the Old Ones.

Probably the better scenario was the previous turn (when I charged my BSB Carnosaur, Stegadon EoG, and Old Blood into the Warlocks... and charged a Bastiladon into a unit of Dark Riders... notice most of those things are missing from the Turn 3 picture) but I forgot to take any pictures until after that turn.

 

[Lizardmatt]

Since it looks like a saurus over-run would miss the warlocks, I would charge the Jav skinks into the flank of the dark riders.
If he flees, it opens up the flank of the warlocks to the Saurus.
If he holds, the skinks hit the riders in the flank, and over-run into the flank of the shades.

Temple guard into the dark riders, as they have no other option.
If the riders hold against the flank charge of the jav skinks, then I'd reform the saurus block 14 wide.
This should put the dark riders, the shades, and even the warlocks in your path. Should the old blood break, the pursuit would hit the saurus.

Priest tries and march to get near the temple guard, which will be out of arc of his fast cav, and close enough for a 4+ look out. Might keep him alive.

 

[hdctambien]

Since it looks like a saurus over-run would miss the warlocks, I would charge the Jav skinks into the flank of the dark riders.
If he flees, it opens up the flank of the warlocks to the Saurus.
If he holds, the skinks hit the riders in the flank, and over-run into the flank of the shades.

Oooh, I wish I had thought of this. He definitely would have held because he didn't want the Saurus coming anywhere near his Warlocks, but the Skinks match up pretty well against he Dark Riders (especially in the flank!)

If the riders hold against the flank charge of the jav skinks, then I'd reform the saurus block 14 wide.
This should put the dark riders, the shades, and even the warlocks in your path. Should the old blood break, the pursuit would hit the saurus.

This is a tactic I have to remember to think about. I never consider changing my frontage (post deployment) for tactical reasons... but I really should.