8th Ed. succesful armies with small skink cohorts, why?

[Professor_Skink]

I agree with all above statements, as I have used different skink combinations before to success and failure, but I have learned value in cohorts for my play style. I run tetto eko and a slann with no TG. There was a game where a high elf player marched first turn into a building, cast str 6 banishment on my slann who at the time was solo, and well, even though I won the game it made me feel tactically inferior. That's why I always run my slann and tetto in cohort units behind my main lines, giving support. Hope that helps put the cohorts in a different perspective that earlier posts.

 

[VampTeddy]

Thank you all for the inputs. I understand that everybody agrees that skirmishers are choice #1 and that you would choose small cohorts only if you are playing with a comp that doesn't make it worth to have too many skirmishers. I also understand that if you want to redirect only, 10 skink cohorts are cheaper than 10 skirmishers so it may be a better idea to choose the cheapest unit if you plan on it dying anyway. However, I am still puzzled about the "almost small" skink cohorts. Like 11-20 skink cohort units. What' s the point? In my head either you field skirmishers or you field a very cheap 10 skink cohort unit or you field a tarpit.

there are several advantages of fielding small units of cohorts, even in comparison to un-comped environments.

19 skink cohorts make an ideal bunker for skink priests and/or slann mage priests before combat is engaged. They pop out alot of shots if in a 10 wide formation (19), and they still come with a 5+/6+.

They have enough ranks to hold up a monster or chariot for a turn or two, due to steadfast, and can even do some hurt in their s&s reaction.

If they have FC (which you should give them), they have swift reform options, and provide another banner to your list, which is crucial in uncomped environments, since otherwise you're gonna lose, if you lose your TG / slann bunker (though you will anyways with a Slann BSB). The Chief can absorb challenges if you use the skink cohort alternatively (flank charging / rear charging) though he's probably the more useless of the 3 when it comes to a skink cohort.

 

[GCPD]

Don't forget that they are also ideal size to garrison a Watchtower! This is especially important when Saurus tend to be over 20. Few units will have the number of attacks to kill all 20 in one round of combat, whereas a unit of 10 might be in a little more danger, and they then enjoy a Stubborn Cold Blooded Leadership check.

 

[JWK47]

Reasons I use small skink cohorts:

1. Comp - A lot of comp systems still place restrictions on number of shots and/or skink skirmishers and cohorts are a good way to get around this.

2. Scenarios - Tournaments I attend nearly always have both blood and glory and watchtower. Skink Cohorts give me access to banners for blood and glory and can bunker up in a building for watchtower.

3. Musicians/Redirecting - The ability to swift reform into conga lines gives me movement options that skink skirmishers don't have, call it another tool in the toolbox. Cohorts are also cheaper than skink skirmishers, less maneuverable and able to rally on LD 6 with a muso (67% chance). Hence I actually will try to redirect with cohorts if at all possible to allow my more maneuverable units to get where they need to be and shoot.

4. Bunkers - They can be a decent place to hide Tetto and/or the Slann, a unit of 20 with a slann in it has a static CRES of 5, with a champion in it you can take most solo characters to the face, get killed by the mount, win combat and then run them down.

5. Static CRES - Can be useful to come in the flanks of a fight your cowboys are in.

6. Cowboy Delivery Systems - If I'm up against armies with bolt throwers or good anti-armour magic I like to put my cowboys in cohorts so they can't be targeted except by killing all of the skinks. For extra hilarity vanguard the whole unit up and delivery 2 cowboys where they need to be with Tetto (great against gunlines).

There are other reasons but these are the main ones. To my mind even in a no comp no scenario environment small units of skink cohorts are essential.

Cheers. Jeff

 

[SilverFaith]

1. Comp - A lot of comp systems still place restrictions on number of shots and/or skink skirmishers and cohorts are a good way to get around this.

Really? Like, some systems really do things like this?

Holy... And I thought the swedish ETC was bad for ONLY using battleline. The subjective opinion of balance is so thick I can almost taste it. At least I can tell why they aren't working for GW, because a quick glance at some of those systems are quick to reveal how utterly broken a lot of it would be.

To be honest, if this point is the reason your skink cohort list is succeeding, it has more to do with you using a broken point system, rather than the unit actually being worthwhile.

In my opinion though, and that's just because I have a completely irrational dislike of the kroxigors (as in, I can't even give you a reason, because I literally can't figure out why I dislike them.), I would never field cohorts. Did it 3 times, and each time, I kept thinking "Skirmishers had been more useful right now.".

Maybe a horde with poison attacks could be useful in some cases, but the point cost is just quite limiting, especially considering how squishy they are. Skirmishers could probably do the job better anyway.

 

[Putzfrau]

1. Comp - A lot of comp systems still place restrictions on number of shots and/or skink skirmishers and cohorts are a good way to get around this.

To be honest, if this point is the reason your skink cohort list is succeeding, it has more to do with you using a broken point system, rather than the unit actually being worthwhile.

That is not the case. Skink cohorts are arguably the best single unit in the book. 110 points for 20 poison shots and a musician is disgustingly good.

It has nothing to do with abusing comp. It helps get around certain comp limitations on skirmishing troops, but by no means is that the ONLY reason cohorts are worthwhile.

Its honestly a little silly to say that, especially given the post you quoted listed numerous reasons and only 1 of them had anything to do with comp. Your comments make it seem like you didn't even take the time to read what else he said. If you did read them then you would know your comment was pretty out of place. How could it be THE reason a skink cohort list is successful when there are 4 other perfectly legitimate points listed in the very post you quoted?

 

[Sleboda]

1. Comp - A lot of comp systems still place restrictions on number of shots and/or skink skirmishers and cohorts are a good way to get around this.

Really? Like, some systems really do things like this?

=> Yeah, really. Some folks won't be happy until the only way to remove an opposing model is by marching straight at them and rolling combat attacks, but never from powerful characters mind you, just from troopers.

Comp is a serious problem. It divides the community like almost nothing else can.

 

[SilverFaith]

1. Comp - A lot of comp systems still place restrictions on number of shots and/or skink skirmishers and cohorts are a good way to get around this.

To be honest, if this point is the reason your skink cohort list is succeeding, it has more to do with you using a broken point system, rather than the unit actually being worthwhile.

That is not the case. Skink cohorts are arguably the best single unit in the book. 110 points for 20 poison shots and a musician is disgustingly good.

It has nothing to do with abusing comp. It helps get around certain comp limitations on skirmishing troops, but by no means is that the ONLY reason cohorts are worthwhile.

Its honestly a little silly to say that, especially given the post you quoted listed numerous reasons and only 1 of them had anything to do with comp. Your comments make it seem like you didn't even take the time to read what else he said. If you did read them then you would know your comment was pretty out of place. How could it be THE reason a skink cohort list is successful when there are 4 other perfectly legitimate points listed in the very post you quoted?

I'm sorry, but you seem to have severely misunderstood the sentence you quoted.

If the ONLY reason it succeeds is because of comps, then you have a problem. Cohorts aren't bad, I just would personally never take cohorts over skirmishers.

I am not disputing the other points at all, merely pointing out that, if cohorts are considering "superior" because of, what is effectively "houserules", then any unit could be potentially "Overpowered" or "useless", without it having any relation to the actual rules.

 

[JWK47]

There are other reasons but these are the main ones. To my mind even in a no comp no scenario environment small units of skink cohorts are essential.

I stand by my summary and even in a no comp environment I would use a combination of skirmishers and cohorts. I feel particularly justified in this both through my personal experiences (I vastly outperformed the all skink skirmisher core lizard armies at Adepticon this year) and in speaking to others who play at the top of the game (Jack Armstrong and other European lizard players always have cohorts regardless of the comp).

I was once told if you wanted to write a powerful no comp list for battle-line the quickest and most no brainer way to do it is to look up the ETC comp on that army and break it as severely as possible. Funnily enough skink cohorts are just as comped as skirmishers, in fact until recently smaller skink cohorts were comped while larger ones weren't.

As for the comp argument, I couldn't care less. I favor no or very little comp myself, but will play virtually anything. I spend my time writing the right list to win for the comp, not worrying about changing it.

 

[SilverFaith]

Just because of this thread, I'll try bringing some small cohorts along next time. Though how, exactly, are they best used? I have a feeling my primary issue is that I try to use them like skink skirmimshers, and they are inferior in that role, obviously. Using them like hammers or anvils doesn't work, either, and the Saurus in general outperform in both areas - so how do i best utilize the cohorts?

As for the comp argument, I couldn't care less. I favor no or very little comp myself, but will play virtually anything. I spend my time writing the right list to win for the comp, not worrying about changing it.

I mostly hate this because a local tournament had the follow rough baselines:
1. 2200 points
2. No lords
3. No special characters
4. No 1+ rerollable armour save
5. No 3+ ward

Those limitations just REALLY rubbed me the wrong way, and seemed like blatant favorism towards certain armies, and obvious "nerfs" to others. Having read up on other comp systems, like, say, the swedish comp system, which also seems super ridiculous, somehow managinig to, in some army comps, to penalize SAURUS more than skinks, when skinks are obviously the better choice to begin with.

But that has no real relation to this topic. It is just a sort of "beserk button" for me, as of late, but I'll try to stay on topic.

 

[Pinktaco]

Ahahahaha okay. So they basically removed what makes us special. Our slann and easy +1 characters. No SC is.. A hit and miss IMO. Some tourney do it others don't.

 

[Ixt]

I usually employ my Skinks with the task of killing big mean things. In my experience, my 14-man Skroxyhorts have outlasted Skirmishers in these scenarios.

If nothing else, it's nice to have more options available in the face of a charge than, "Uhh.. Flee!!," especially when these charges are inevitable. A Stand & Shoot is a death sentence for small Skirmisher squads, and I prefer for these little guys - cheap as they are - to stick around for as long as possible.

My Cohorts usually shoot, causing wounds. They then Stand and Shoot, causing wounds and not being affected by Terror. In combat, they often go first with poisoned attacks, causing wounds. Even better if they can cause Fear. At the end, the Kroxigor almost always gets at least one wound. Skirmishers tend to shoot, then flee in Terror.

It's not an either/or for me, as I run both skirmishers & cohorts as tandem. They both have weaknesses, and mitigate these weaknesses when fielded together.

14-man fear-causing/terror-immune musical Skroxyhort pumping out 14 Poisoned Attacks at Ld7 Steadfast (against monsters)/I4 unbuffed per turn with armor & parry for half the cost of an EotG Stegadon w/ Sharpened Horns.. I like it.

It capably ties up monsters/small elite units. It is an effective meat shield for Skirmishers, who seem to immediately die in all close combat. They can mitigate the Saurus' weakness against being charged if used as a buffer.

I like the small cohorts. They are a versatile unit that synergizes well with pretty much every multi-model unit I've fielded them alongside. Also nice that they easily crash a flank @ M6. Plus, hey!: another banner!

My 2¢.

 

[MarchoftheStegs]

until about 2 months ago I had never used skink cohorts.now my unit of 16 and two kroxigor ae the first guys in. They are annoying effective and no one wants to take s7 from kroxigors so they change the way my opponents attack my Stegadon heavy monster mash. I really need to find the points to make these guys poisoned.

 

[Qupakoco]

Skroxyhorts

This is my new favorite term in the lizard army, lol.

 

[Ixt]

Skroxyhorts

This is my new favorite term in the lizard army, lol.

Haha I was kinda tipsy at its inception! I'd meant to say 'skroxigor' but kinda trailed off into it.

My opponent started using it, and it was all downhill from there! thank you! ^_^

 

[Scalenex]

Thank you all for the inputs. I understand that everybody agrees that skirmishers are choice #1 and that you would choose small cohorts only if you are playing with a comp that doesn't make it worth to have too many skirmishers. I also understand that if you want to redirect only, 10 skink cohorts are cheaper than 10 skirmishers so it may be a better idea to choose the cheapest unit if you plan on it dying anyway. However, I am still puzzled about the "almost small" skink cohorts. Like 11-20 skink cohort units. What' s the point? In my head either you field skirmishers or you field a very cheap 10 skink cohort unit or you field a tarpit.

13 Skinks will handle magic missiles and BS shooting better than 10 since statistically we usually lose 3 Skinks. 13 means you have to lose 4 Skinks to panic. This applies to Skirmishers more than Cohorts. I don't see any reason to take a Cohort with 11-19 members unless it's packing a Kroxigor.

20 Skink strong Cohorts, on the other hand, are a staple of most of my army lists. It gives me a unit to stick in the Watchtower (note, deploy your Slann outside the Temple Guard in this case as it's the only legal way to start your Slann 12 inches from the Watchtower for the command range).

You don't need Watchtowers to justify a unit of 20 Skinks. Buildings are the most common terrain piece in the BRB terrain generator and most gaming stores use buildings by default. A building at least somewhat near the center is a great place to stick a medium sized Cohort. They get to throw javelins in a 360 arc and anyone trying to charge them has to face a poisoned stand and shoot. If the building is within range of your general or BSB the Skinks aren't going to budge until killed to the last man. I've routinely seen my medium small Cohorts hold off units three times their points value.

When you don't have a building to occupy they are sub-optimal but they are not worthless. They can provide flanking support or you can pop them on a hill near the back to bunker a Skink priest and help the Slann target magic missiles (lore permitting).