7th Ed. Starting up 2250 Lizzies, a few concerns with my list...

[Amornar]

New to the site, but I have been playing Warhammer for quite a while now. Starting up lizzies and could use a little advice.

Finally going to start up my lizardmen army after months of my carnosaur looking rather lonely on my shelf. Currently I only own my general, the saurus, skinks, cavalry, and the razordon so I am only committed to those units. But I am a little concerned about the krox. They are not as powerful as they used to be and im worried their points could be better spent else where, but I don't know what I would replace them with. I have toyed around with changing the anvil temple guard out for just saurus, but its not that many points for a lot less survivability, with my BSB I feel it is a VERY solid anvil...as long as it sees combat.

My regular opponents are all doing new armies. One is doing new skaven, not sure what his list is but I know the bell is in it. Another is starting new beastmen next month (currently running a wood elf list with a dragon). And a third is undecided, but will prob go with either tomb kings or orcs.

I don't want to make a tailored list, but those will be my main opponents.

Lizardmen 2249

Oldblood
Blade of Realities
Enchanted Shield
Light Armour
Carnosaur

Scar Veteran
Great Weapon
Shield
Cold One Armor
BSB

Skink Priest
Level 2
Dispel Scroll
Diadem of Power
Engine of the Gods

10 Skinks:
Javelins & Shields

10 Skinks:
Javelins & Shields

12 Skink Skirmishers
Blowpipes

14 Temple Guard
Full Command

12 Saurus Warriors
Standard Bearer
Musician
Spears

5 Saurus Cavarly

3 Kroxigors

3 Terradons

1 Salamander

1 Razordon

Thanks for any input in advance.

Cheers,

Amornar

 

[Sebulba]

I like salamanders myself but I guess I've never really tried the razordons... you could always proxy between the two if you're playing with just friends?

Saurus are SOOOO good! TG are good too... but mostly the slann makes them worth their points. Personally I'd take saurus but it's your call.

If you're nervous about the kroxigors then you could drop them I think. They take up a VERY valuable special slot. They're great in skrox units (which you could make with just one kroxigor and 11 ranked skinks to kind of test them out) because they are core. Terradons and chameleon skinks fill a vital role in the army and you kind of need them in your special slots (saurus cav are fine too).

Other than that, looks pretty solid. I'd double check about putting magic items on the BSB though...

 

[Stegadeth]

If I am not fielding a Slann, I leave my Temple Guard at home. An actual Cold One would cost you thirty points less than the Hide of the Cold Ones. Personally I am not a fan of Kroxigors or Skink Cohorts. I love skirmishers. I also love Saurus Warriors with spears in blocks of 18 (six files, three ranks). Cold One Cavalry is golden. I think four terradons is slightly more effective than three in that if you lose one or two you can still use them properly. I would deploy the Oldblood on the flank so he hopefully won't be Frenzy-baited around by fast cavalry or fliers all game. You'll also want to screen him a little if your opponent is packing a warmachine. Finally, I have a personal preference for Salamanders over Razordons. They force a panic test to a unit when they cause even only one wound! Of course it being a flaming attack is also nice against undead and Wood Elves (and anything with regeneration, etc.)

Those are my thoughts right off the bat. Your local metagame may be vastly different than mine, so your list may be much better suited, but that is only determinable by you. ;P

 

[Amornar]

Thanks for the replies guys, here is a revision based on comments:

Lizardmen 2250

Oldblood
Blade of Realities
Enchanted Shield
Light Armour
Carnosaur

Scar Veteran
Great Weapon
Shield
Cold One Armor
BSB

Skink Priest
Level 2
Dispel Scroll
Diadem of Power
Engine of the Gods

10 Skinks
Javelins & Shields

11 Skinks
Musician
Kroxigor
Javelins & Shields

12 Skink Skirmishers
Blowpipes

17 Saurus Warriors
Full Command
Spears

12 Saurus Warriors
Standard Bearer
Musician
Spears

5 Saurus Cavarly

3 Terradons

4 Terradons

1 Salamander
Extra Handler

1 Razordon

 

[erians]

Hello Amornar and welcome to the forums ! There is an introduction part of the forum if you feel like presenting yourself (you dont have to of course, my guess is most people dont). Here comes my 2 cents:

Oldblood
Blade of Realities
Enchanted Shield
Light Armour
Carnosaur

Scar Veteran
Great Weapon
Shield
Cold One Armor
BSB

Skink Priest
Level 2
Dispel Scroll
Diadem of Power
Engine of the Gods

The carnosaurs would benefit a lot from a war drum, so unless you are dead set on the not-so-popular blade of Realities then Id go for a Wardrum, some magic weapon (Revered blade and sword of might are nice). Move 7 is pretty slow, especially for something that really wants to get into peoples flank. When you suddenly burst 14" forward even when march blocked on the other thand you go from slowest monster mount ever to almost flying ! The realities blade is probably pretty good against skaven and beastmen, but I would still take mobility on a monster that negates rank bonuses.

Skink set up is pretty good, solid magic defence. Keep in mind that he can be killed in close combat VERY easily, anything with multiple S4 attacks are a serious thread to your only magic defence.

Why no magic items on the BSB? There are tons of amazing set ups, like Burning Blade (abomination killer extraordinaire) or Sword of Might combined with Enchanted shield (0+ save and T5 is good) or with Maiming Shield. You also really need some magical attacks at as many places as possible if its an all comers list, as you need to be able to handle etherals and the like.

10 Skinks
Javelins & Shields

11 Skinks
Musician
Kroxigor
Javelins & Shields

12 Skink Skirmishers
Blowpipes

17 Saurus Warriors
Full Command
Spears

12 Saurus Warriors
Standard Bearer
Musician
Spears

Looks pretty solid, one bg Saurus anvil and a support unit of 12 is pretty nice, just watch out so your unit of 12 Saurus dont get shot at, their effeciency drops dramatically when they take casulties (-2 attacks for every dead saurus). You might also consider dropping the banner on them, the banner makes them worth +100 VPs so 40% of the units VP value is in the flag, and they will have a pretty bad static ress with or without it.

I also stronly reccomend more poison. The abomination is a huge threat but can easily be dealt with by poison, and the beastmen are getting razorgors and gorgons which most likley are equally weak to poison as all big monsters are. Skirmishers are great harassers so at least 2 units is recommended. 2 skirmishers with blowpipes is ideal, but 1 with javs and 1 with blowpipes is ok if you dont have enought blow pipe models, just as long as they skrimish.

5 Saurus Cavarly

3 Terradons

4 Terradons

Very solid special choices, but you have a special slot left if you want to add those kroxigors (assuming the special slot was the only reason you didn't take them). Terradons are great in both units of 3 and 4. When you get better at protecting them and manouvering with them then 3 will do fine, but more terradons = more drop rocks = awesome.

Your Carnosaur Oldblood can join the unit of CoC as well making them very mobile as they can't be march blocked, but he can be targeted in units so watch out if you are up against warplightning cannons.

1 Salamander
Extra Handler

1 Razordon

Again solid choices. Personally I never ever field an army without 2 salamanders, they are cheap, they cause panic and most of all they do tremendous damage, far better than razordons against both armored troops and unarmored troops. Razordons on the other hand is pretty similar to 6th salamanders, except they only got to keep a fraction of their fire power. On avarage they score 2.5 S4 hits with no armor reduction, while a good salamander flame hits 10+ 20mm bases (my record so far is 17 hits). The ability to flee with salamanders (which Razordons cant) is priceless, as it makes them very effecient harassers and baiters as well as amazing shooting support. If you are limited by your models you can always convert a razordon to a salamander.

That being said there is also room for razordons. While they are less effecient than the salamanders they are easier to use and imo any unit that scores a random number of hits are much more fun to shoot with than anything else, so razordon is an excelllent choice if you don't want to always take the best choice and sometimes want to bring something to the table just for fun.

 

[Sebulba]

Sorry about the BSB thing, maybe the rule is you can't take magic items and a magic banner as a BSB?

And the Carnosaur actually can't be targetted in a unit. He's not a large target

 

[erians]

And the Carnosaur actually can't be targetted in a unit. He's not a large target

A mounted character with US 5 can always be targeted in a unit, so yes, he can be targeted. This also applies for Look Out, Sir!, so cannons can shoot at him as well.

page 74 in the BRB:

"If a character model (including mount) has a unit strenght of 5 or more then he can be picked out as a target regardless of the rules just given. Enemies can freely choose either shoot at the character or the unit he has joined."

You are right about him not being a large target tho, so he can hide begind units, just not inside them.

 

[Amornar]

Thanks for the great feedback erains. This is my new revision. Dumped some terradons because I really don't want to buy them, kept the unit of 4 though to do their thing. Added more skirmishers, and some shuffles of points here and there on units. Keeping the razordon for now, if I didn't already own one I would switch him out, but I will try him and if i decide I don't like him after a while I will trade him out, but for now he seems like a great way to protect a flank from fast cav. Kept my heros the same though. The BSB is rock hard with T6 and a very nice armour save. As for the carnosaur I can slay rank and file with saurus and cav, but for those big ugly things thats why I have the oldblood. The blade of realities is perfect for taking down those pesky characters and monsters that the skinks can't get near (terror) or can't put out enough firepower to kill quickly (damn hydras).

Lizardmen 2249

Oldblood
Blade of Realities
Enchanted Shield
Light Armour
Carnosaur

Scar Veteran
Great Weapon
Shield
Hide of the Cold Ones
BSB

Skink Priest
Level 2
Dispel Scroll
Diadem of Power
Engine of the Gods

10 Skinks
Javelins & Shields

11 Skinks
Musician
Kroxigor
Javelins & Shields

12 Skink Skirmishers
Blowpipes

12 Skink Skirmishers
Javelins & Shields

17 Saurus Warriors
Full Command
Spears

12 Saurus Warriors
Musician
Spears

5 Saurus Cavarly

4 Terradons

1 Salamander
Extra Handler

1 Razordon
Extra Handler

Thanks for all the feedback so far, keep it coming.

 

[erians]

Thanks for the great feedback erains. This is my new revision. Dumped some terradons because I really don't want to buy them, kept the unit of 4 though to do their thing. Added more skirmishers, and some shuffles of points here and there on units. Keeping the razordon for now, if I didn't already own one I would switch him out, but I will try him and if i decide I don't like him after a while I will trade him out, but for now he seems like a great way to protect a flank from fast cav. Kept my heros the same though. The BSB is rock hard with T6 and a very nice armour save. As for the carnosaur I can slay rank and file with saurus and cav, but for those big ugly things thats why I have the oldblood. The blade of realities is perfect for taking down those pesky characters and monsters that the skinks can't get near (terror) or can't put out enough firepower to kill quickly (damn hydras).

I agree that blade of realites is a great counter for the things the the rest of the army struggle with, but it won't help if you can't connect with your target because you're marsh blcoket (carno always have S7 and does a D3 wounds to large targets so he will eat monsters no matter what the oldblood is swinging). Forcing skaven to test on their unmodified LD is fun tho, he will absolutly destroy any skaven character. Skinks are great vs large target terror causers, when they are withing generals LD they have 89% of holding.

The BSB is rock hard with your set up, he still has all the weaknesses of a cold one (stupidity) while none of the advantages (speed & save). If you set him on a cold one with enchanted shield he is just as resilient as with the cold one hide, but he is also faster and hits MUCH harder with a magic weapon. If you face something with S5 every it takes 6 hits to cause a wound on your bsb (6 hits -> 2 wounds -> 1 unsaved on 4+ save), while it takes 12 hits to cause a wound on the cold one + encahnted shield set up (12 hits -> 6 wounds -> 1 unsaved on 2+ save). You can combine it with a burning blade which makes him the ultimate hydra and abomination killer (he does around 1.3 wounds per turn and rarely takes any wounds back, often winning by 1-2 forcing LD6 break tests on hydras). A sword of might is good as well.