7th Ed. Standard Bearers and Musicians

[Quillum]

Not sure if i need to be asking this in another thread than this one, but with regards to Musicians and Standard Bearers, is it good to field both in a unit of Saurus Warriors?

I'm currently looking to field just a 1k army, and I recall that I used to field the full Command, however, I've been looking at some of the armies that people have put together on here and I see some lacking command models.
I apologize for so many questions that may be obvious to others, but I have a bad habit of missing the obvious.

 

[Revered_Guardian]

They are a must, the standard helps you get CR (combat res) and the musician will save you from a break test incase of a tie, your enemy will always have 1 and unless you do hell win a tied combat, they also help you rally! (however if you have a standard you could potentially give up 100vps to the enemy....)

 

[asrodrig]

I wouldn't advise leaving out the Standard and Musician. Then again, I've never fielded a unit without them, so I don't know how it would do.

 

[strewart]

It mostly depends on how big the unit is and what you are using it for. If it is only 10 saurus, then I would avoid at least a standard if not a musician as well since the unit will be more fo flanking. Same with cold ones, a unit of 5 will not need command since they are support, but a big unit will want it.

As a general rule most infantry (not so sure about skinks, might be giving away VP) should have command, especially when you are starting out. Once you get to the stage when you are sure a draw will not happen, if the unit is being supported or you will only commit it when you know it will win, you can shave points by removing some musicians.

Also keep in mind that if you draw combat but don't have a musician, your opponent will only win combat by 1 and you have cold blooded so most likely will not be going anywhere anyway. In general best to have them to negate the opponents though.

 

[kroxigor01]

I like having the ability to sacrifice units for great goals (for instance, fleeing with a saurus unit of 10 to get a flank with a second unit of 10). For this reason I forgo standards.

I also stick mostly away from musicians. The probability of that one extra point of LD for rallying coming into play is slim. The probability of a drawn combat happening is slightly less slim, but even then, were you really likely to fail your LD7 cold blooded test?

 

[WheelR]

I learned it the hard way to bring Musician with me.. Being run over by skeletons because it won the tie.. No fun.. No fun i can tell you. I got myself quiet some ties so i always bring a Musician with me.. A Standard well yes that should been taken with big units. Unless you use R&F Skinks. Most probably your opponent has one if not.. +1 for you.

But yes.. the chance to fail 8LD with 3 dice is small.. but there is always a chance ofc.

 

[Caneghem]

Standard Bearer - Only take one of these in units that you expect to take into ONLY winning combats. Putting a banner on a unit means that the unit will either be deciding its engagements (cavalry for example) or it is a unit that will not be able to decide its engagements but needs to (or has a chance to) survive for success. If a unit can be taken out by the enemy's fast moving support units, then putting a banner on the unit is asking for trouble. Likewise if it is a unit like a 10-man shooting group that you'd prefer the enemy ignore, putting a banner there begs for more attention.

Musician - Only put this on a unit that you might be taking into close combat, a unit that you might flee or tactically retreat with, or a unit that has minimal leadership that might fail a terror test initially and need to rally to come back. In other words, most units that can take a muso, should take a muso.

If you're talking about your big infantry blocks going head to head with other big blocks, you might be looking at some draws and you better not get caught without a muso. Should your block survive a big charge from a monster or chariot and it comes out as a tie, then with your muso you know that you get to win that combat and possibly make them flee or crumble a bit. In the case of fear causing enemies this could make a huge difference, should they have a muso while you left yours at home.

Talking about cavalry, yes we have a very high leadership, but remember a movement of 7 will have you rolling three dice and dashing for the nearest edge, which is something you want to be certain does not happen. Of less concern is combat itself for cavalry, as if things go well you should be only declaring favorable charges (winning by a fair margin), but you never know what the tides of battle will throw your way.

Detachments and harassment units should get them as well, since these are units you are almost certain will be fleeing for tactical advantage. Now some will contend that throwaway units shouldn't get even musicians, because they just become that much more expensive... But if a unit can be "thrown away" twice in a game instead of just once, isn't it worth paying a few more points to help them rally and keep doing their job?

A final thing worth noting is our cold-blooded nature... an extra point toward rallying adds a lot more certainty of rallying than it does when warm bloods have a musician.

Champions - Hero protectors in large units, possible liabilities in others. I like big blocks to all have champions, as they tend to function better when they remain "big". When a big nasty charges and does special damage on the charge, it is nice to have the champion stand up bravely and get slaughtered. This helps preserve your numbers, though you are just as likely to lose combat (unless the enemy manages more than 6 wounds, in which case challenges save you those extra CR as well). For cavalry you're just buying an extra attack really, and if you plan on putting a character in the unit the champ doesn't even count towards "Look out sir!" In skirmish and shooting units they tend to be a total waste of points, so take a musician instead if possible.