*SPOILERS* Discussing spoiler culture.

[Aginor]

Hey y'all!

Inspired by this article and some of the comments below it I think I might have changed my opinion of spoilers to a certain degree.
Warning: the article contains spoilers for movies. Also: the comments contain even more.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/this-was-the-decade-that-spoiler-culture-changed-everyt-1838626676

And I'd like to talk about that with y'all.
I am going to use examples though, so I will spoil some movies. Nothing recent though, and I will be careful.
I'd like to ask you to not spoil any recent (2018 or later, just to be sure) movies/games/tvshows/books and if your example requires it, then please use the usual spoiler tags and write which movie would get spoiled by them.

So here we go.
As I wrote above, that article has some interesting points some of which I agree with.

I'll start with my personal history of spoilers and go from there.

I remember a few movie plot points that were spoiled for me in advance and how I reacted to them:

- in 1999 my brother spoiled Star Wars Ep1 for me.
Judging by the trailers and merchandise I had I said I was looking forward to seeing Qui-Gon Jinn and that I would like the character a lot.
He had seen the movie in the cinema with his friends and outright told me that Qui-Gon dies.
I was devastated. Funnily I noticed that it didn't take away from my enjoyment of the movie.

- I watched "The Sixth Sense" years after it was released. Despite that, until the day I watched it with my girlfriend I didn't know about the major twist. Her roommate spoiled it during the first scene or so.
The movie is still one of my favourites of that genre. I have seen it four or five times and I still get goosebumps when the twist scene happens.

- "The Usual Suspects" is a great movie. I wasn't spoiled for that one, and it felt great when the... thing happened. I have been wondering since then if the movie would have been as good despite knowing what would happen. I watched it three times or so since then, and to me the most fun was watching it for the second time. It is almost a different movie, and a very nice experience to watch it if you are already in the know.

- I have been on the receiving end of some Endgame spoilers. I have not seen the movie yet so I don't know if knowing about those things will take away from the movie.
Right now I am contemplating to read everything about it and see if I like the movie (I own the BluRay but my TV died a month ago).
So if any of y'all think the movie isn't enjoyable when knowing the plot, try to change my mind, please!

The list (spoilers for Endgame or maybe not):

Spoiler

- Tony dies
- Thor dies
- Spiderman lives
- Hulk becomes Prof. Hulk
- they win by using time travel
- something with someone (might be Spiderman) posing as one of the others? (Might be Ironman)
... I think there were one or two more but I didn't care enough to remember them.

- I have never seen "Fight Club" or "American Psycho" but have read plot recaps so I know their stories. Will I enjoy them? And why?


My opinion about movie plots - generally speaking - is that they should not rely on surprises. If a whole movie doesn't work because you know about some plot point in advance, then the movie isn't good anyway.

The other thing - and that's something about me personally - is that I am blessed with the ability to immerse myself a lot. That means that I can (after watching Star Wars a bazillion times) still be emotionally touched by Obi-Wan dying, Vader being Luke's father and the like. That's also what makes me enjoy video games so much (and completely kills the fun in others, incidentally). I can "become the character" or at least part of the universe and disregard outside knowledge for a while. Sometimes that is unpleasant (I play "A Plague Tale: Innocence" right now) but interesting. Sometimes it just sucks.
But it can help immensely, especially with plots that are not quite up there quality-wise. It makes me enjoy mediocre movies more I think. I don't constantly think "oh the producer wants me think xyz now, such an ass" even though I am aware of how movies are made, what tropes are used, and how personal and company policies influence film making.

My way of thinking about spoilers led to an interesting situation back when I was in 12th grade or so and had to make a presentation about a book. I decided to make it about "The Lord of the Rings" which is a nice piece of literature I can talk about for hours. It was well-known, published in the 1950s, and didn't rely a lot on surprises, so me talking about it wouldn't spoil it for anyone, it would maybe make them read it. Or so I thought.
The reality looked.... different. The first part of the LotR movie was released a few weeks before my presentation and you can probably figure out how well the presentation went. That's when I really encountered spoiler culture. Sometimes it feels absurd.

Ok, enough about me. Let's talk about spoiler culture. The linked article talks about some interesting aspects of it. Nowadays movie makers do (IMO silly) stuff like putting fake scenes into trailers, playing some mind games with the viewers. To me that sounds like "this movie has no content except surprises".

Some movie fans tend to make their theories about everything (which is good) but then they act angry if they are right. "boring! I could see that coming", or "this is straight from the comics/books. Nothing new. Unoriginal".
They might be as angry if the producers throw them a curveball and change things. "this is not at all like in the comics/books" or "that doesn't make any sense!" (While in reality it might make sense but not fit the fan theory).
Producers also overdo it by needlessly adding "surprises".

People fear to get spoiled by action figures or movie trailers (advertising for the very movie they are about to watch!)

And then if course things have changed with social media. If I was on Facebook or Twitter then I would see a LOT more spoilers. Right now my main spoiler sources are:
- stumbling about questions on stack exchange that happen to include the spoiler in their head lines.
- reading kotaku.com
- @NIGHTBRINGER or some other meme dude in my (small) social media bubble posts memes.

What I am rethinking is - given my perceived immunity against spoilers - my stance toward spoilers. I still tend to actively avoid them, which limits my enjoyment of media.
Maybe I should do what my dad does: just let them come.

So, what is your stance on spoiler culture?
How do you think should I act when the "Wheel of Time" TV show starts (for example)?

Should we change our policy?
Do things that happen during the first episode of a tv show (like the thing that happens in The Mandalorian) really spoil anything in the show? Should it matter?

 

[Erta Wanderer]

i am ambivalent. when i was young i had a series of books that had the first chapter be from 2/3 ish thrue the story solid spoilers but i never minded it was almost as fun to wonder how they would get to that part with the pages remaining. it's something i still do sometimes.
on top of that iv'e never seen the massive problem with it shur some people might get les out of a seen if they know whats going to happen and i try to accommodate them, but the lvl of hysterics that some go to over this subject baffles me some just go way to far. and some keep this up for months/years after the thing id question comes out if it's that important to you then why didn't you see it sooner.
so my outlook is that it's up to the person that doesn't want it spoild to stay away from places that would cause it and for me to stop talking about it if some one asks i don't understand it but im willing to give way to prevent conflict

 

[Aginor]

Related:
In detective/crime stories there are two main ways to tell the story:
- tell the audience who did the thing and let them watch the characters find out, too.
- don't tell the audience and let them experience it. Provide them with clues or not.

To me both can be equally enjoyable. What about y'all?


Also: James Bond movies can be pretty exciting and also nail biters despite knowing that James Bond will save the day, and live. Why is that? What are the techniques they are using for that?

 

[Aginor]

if it's that important to you then why didn't you see it sooner.
so my outlook is that it's up to the person that doesn't want it spoild to stay away from places that would cause it

That's an interesting point because other have brought it up a few times as well.
The thing is: it may not be that easy.

Example:
Star Wars is pretty important for me. So I don't want to get The Mandalorian spoiled.
...but Disney+ doesn't start here until.... March 31st.

Meanwhile Amazon sells plush **** **** and recommends them to me. Everyone and their mother on Facebook, Twitter, Lustria-Online and literally every meme site out there posts pictures and videos of it. Kotaku writes articles about it. So do newspapers everywhere.

I don't mind but I sure know a lot of people who do.
What you are asking for might actually be impossible (well.... legally at least...)

 

[Erta Wanderer]

That's an interesting point because other have brought it up a few times as well.
The thing is: it may not be that easy.

Example:
Star Wars is pretty important for me. So I don't want to get The Mandalorian spoiled.
...but Disney+ doesn't start here until.... March 31st.

Meanwhile Amazon sells plush **** **** and recommends them to me. Everyone and their mother on Facebook, Twitter, Lustria-Online and literally every meme site out there posts pictures and videos of it. Kotaku writes articles about it. So do newspapers everywhere.

I don't mind but I sure know a lot of people who do.
What you are asking for might actually be impossible (well.... legally at least...)

most who care a lot about such things go into internet black outs a week before the thing drops in your case it's a bit more extreme you can't do that for 4 months but it works most of the time. i would just stay away from meme sites and the stuff here is clearly labled. i don't know how to counter amazon that had not occurred to me.

 

[Aginor]

most who care a lot about such things go into internet black outs a week before the thing drops in your case it's a bit more extreme you can't do that for 4 months but it works most of the time. i would just stay away from meme sites and the stuff here is clearly labled. i don't know how to counter amazon that had not occurred to me.

I think that if something is ubiquitous enough then you have no chance to escape it for more than two months or so. My experiment with Endgame showed that I can make it three (because I don't really use social networks) but that's it.

Related: I remember an episode of "How I met your mother" in which they can't watch the Super Bowl together so they try to avoid it for one day. Kf course they don't make it. For something as high profile as that it is basically impossible.
You can make it in Germany. Maybe. For a few days.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

If a movie is really important enough to me, I go and watch it on opening day. If it is a movie that I care less about (i.e. The Rise of Skywalker) then I don't really care about spoilers.

I agree with you that a movie shouldn't rely on surprises to be entertaining, but they are still important and memorable moments. Knowing the spoiler ahead of time might not ruin a movie, but it does detract from it in some way, at least for me. On the other hand, there are people who get angry about a spoiler years after the release of the movie/media. How long is it fair to expect the world to inhibit their conversation?

...but Disney+ doesn't start here until.... March 31st.

 

[Aginor]

Knowing the spoiler ahead of time might not ruin a movie, but it does detract from it in some way, at least for me.

Hmmm... I wonder if there is a movie that is really ruined when you know the end/twist. I can't imagine it, and I had wondered whether you have an example for that.
Maybe in the Horror genre? There might be some movies that really depend on shock effects to a larger part.

Well, yeah. What would Captain Jack Sparrow do....
Pretty much what I do. The difference is that I am sad about it.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Hmmm... I wonder if there is a movie that is really ruined when you know the end/twist. I can't imagine it, and I had wondered whether you have an example for that.

Maybe not completely ruined, but instead diminished. It will also depend on the person watching it, for some people a spoiler can ruin a movie while other people don't care in the slightest.

Pretty much what I do. The difference is that I am sad about it.

Not to worry... less money for my arch-enemy Disney!!

 

[Scalenex]

Maybe not completely ruined, but instead diminished. It will also depend on the person watching it, for some people a spoiler can ruin a movie while other people don't care in the slightest.

This/\

I will add. It's not a big deal if someone spoils something. But why deliberately spoil something. It's a rude thing to do. It's not an unforgivably rude thing to do, but at the end of the day someone is diminishing the potential enjoyment of another in order to show how smart she is.

I'm not offended by accidental spoilers but I still try to avoid them. Sadly, in Current Year, people in general are more thin skinnned and easily offended, so we have to walk on egg shells as much as feasible.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Spoiler

Made you look!

 

[Aginor]

Spoiler

Made you look!

 

[ChapterAquila92]

I personally think that "spoiler culture" in recent memory is an overblown reaction to being on the receiving end of an information fire hose where access to media content is almost always readily available in real time. Ironically, this is paradoxically often in tandem with the prevalence of instant gratification that's craved by just about everyone who engages in social media. If there's anything I've noticed about spoilers however, it's that most spoilers only focus on plot points, be it the big reveal, the twist ending, or the blatant lies of the promotion material, and not the progression that ties the points together.

Anyways, chances are that if I want to "spoil" the plot of a movie, game, or book for myself, it's because I'm already interested in watching, playing, and/or reading it anyway and want to make sense of it.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

One example I can think of, where spoilers would IMO diminish the movie is 'The Prestige'. Now it's by no means a bad movie if you know every detail from the movie, but if you are watching it for the first time, having important plot details spoiled would take away from part of the intention of the plot.

 

[Scalenex]

Visiting my extended family over Thanksgiving weekend, whenever we watched a movie or something the little kids always spoiled the twists if they knew. This was not unique to movies. They loved to try to share facts they thought adults didn't know, it made them feel big.

This is why I view spoiling media as childish though not particularly offensive.